Two soldiers same number.

[Timberman]

 
 Just doing some work on the 2nd Bn.
 Never came across this before, I have two soldiers with the same number.
 Can anyone explain why? I thought that numbers were reissued when someone
 left the Battalion.
 
 Both to the 2nd Bn
 The first one.
 Thomas Trott 1414 went to France 15/08/14 discharged 4/2/19.
 The second one.
 Cornelius Morton 1414 went to France 9/11/14 discharged 1920

 Both were L/Cpl when they went to France.

 I do have all the info from Ancestry.
 
 Neil

[Timberman]

 I've just been looking at the 1914 star list and 1914-15 star list, on the
 numbers starting with 14, there are other soldiers that have the same numbers.
 Still not sure why though.
 
 Neil

[mack]

hiya neil
the men of the 1st battalion and the special reserve would have these kind of numbers as well

mack

[Timberman]

 Thanks Mack.
 This may be wrong but I'll do a bit more research.
 A lot of the 14 numbers came from the 4th Battalion
 and they seem to of kept their same numbers all the
 way through the war.

 Neil

[Tim Bell]

Hi Neil,
I often check this link for number series' https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/01/manchester-regiment-regular-special.html
It appears 1st / 2nd Bn men enlisting in 1908, 3rd Bn men from 1910/11 and 4th Bn men from 1909 may all have had numbers in the 1400 sequence.
Tim

[mack]

neil
L/cpl morton enlisted in 1910 so it looks like he was the reservist.

mack

[Timberman]

 
 Thanks Tim
 My interest in the 1400 sequence is my Grandad number was in the 1400
 and was  just trying to cross reference other soldiers with the 1400 sequence.
 After Mack pointed me in the direction for Thomas Trott and the write up in
 the menbehindthemedals and that he was in the POW list. I did a bit more digging.
 
  Thanks Mack
  I found his claim for the silver war badge.
  He started with the 2nd when he went to France on the 9/11/14,
 at some stage he then ended up in the Lan Fus with the number 39526.
 Then came back to the Manchester's with his old number.
 Going through the 1914 star list I found about 9 soldiers that went with the Battalion to France
 from Ireland on the 15/8/1914 with numbers in the 1400's, so far.
 Then another 9 that were entitled to the 1914 star that went of in different drafts.
 Then found 27 up to now that were entitled to the 1914/15
 including my Grandad that also went over in different drafts.

 So from that info I think even the ones that were with the battalion in Ireland
 started out with the 4th Bn, I know Trott was in Ireland in 1911 as he in on the 1911
 Irish census. This is going on that the 4th Bn was the feeder for the 2nd Bn.

 If this is wrong let me know, it will stop me barking up the wrong tree

 I just need to start going through the list and see if I can find any service records.

 Neil   
 

 

[Timberman]

 I think I'm wrong although most were from the 4th some were from the 3rd,
 as in the case of Adam Victor Dye 1491, went to France 25/6/1915, discharged 18/7/1918.
 Died 09 January 1919 Age 28 years old. Listed on the CWGC site as 3rd Bn manchesters.

 Neil

[mack]

hiya neil
he was discharged from the 3rd battalion,he enlisted on 20th february 1908 in either the 1st or 2nd battalion,so your still right

mack

[mack]

hiya neil
you also have a problem with crossovers between the 1st and 2nd batts in 1914,by the end of august 1914 no more men were being sent to the 1st bttalion because they would have recieved orders that they were going to france,and the 2nd battalion were in need of reinforcements after their heavy losses,some of these men would have come from the 1st battalion.

mack

[Timberman]

 Thanks Mack
 Knowing now that the 3rd and 4th were using the
 1400's about the same time does put a bit of a
 spanner in my theory. I'll keep digging for a service
 record for  someone from the 4th Bn.
 Neil

[mack]

hiya neil
in early 1915 they were asking for volunteers to go to france from the territoral battalions,there could have been men with 1400 numbers amongst these as well,sorry mate

mack

[mack]

cpl 1483 edward louis lavelle.enlisted 12-11-1910 in 3rd special reserve[see menbehindthemedals]
pte 1454 alfred cobain enlisted 1908.2nd manchesters[also menbehindthemedals]

mack

[mack]

hiya neil
without service or pension records it would be impossible to find out which battalion these men came from,the SWB lists are helpful because they give the date of their enlistment,if it was 1910,then its certain they were 4th batt and those who joined in 1908 are 2nd batt,these few below may be helpful to you

1465 john gorman,7-3-10 4th batt
1450 john james seddon,3-3-10,4th batt
1433 william purser,26-1-10,4th batt then to 2nd batt
1453 ernest taylor,2-3-10,4th batt

1453 james clayton,3-12-08,2nd batt,then to 1st batt[see taylor above,same number]
1457 james bratt,8-12-08 2nd batt then to 1st batt
1494 bert mott,29-12-08 2nd batt

mack

[Timberman]

 Hi Mack
 Thank you for the lists, one has stood out 1465 john gorman,7-3-10 4th batt.
 He enlisted the same day as my Grandad and only a few numbers difference
 between them.
 All four of them enlisted about the same time so he may of known them all.
 Thanks again for your help it much appreciated.
 Neil