Pte. James Dunn DCM 24357

[Tim Bell]

This is a further DCM that may be more appropriately credited to another Bttn.  The forum's thoughts are appreciated.

Pte. J. Dunn 24357 (Bolton, Lancs)
Place and date of deed.
Not Known 03/06/18
Gazetted 21/10/18
For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. As a runner he has done excellent work. Volunteering to take messages through heavy fire on many occasions, setting a fine example to his comrades and keeping up most important communications at critical times. (21/10/18)

James served with the 17th & 19th M/Chr Regmnt and Border Regiment.  While he may have been attached from the 17th Bttn on 3/6/18, the 17th were not an active unit by this time.  Does this mean the Honour relates to the host or original Battalion?  Semantics maybe...

Thanks

T

 

[mack]

james dunn enlisted in the 14th batt on 24-4-15,he then served with the 11th batt at gallipoli until he was invalided home with enteric fever to 2nd western gen hospital,he was then posted to the 19th batt in france on 11th sept 1916,he was wounded in the big attack by the 19th batt on 23-4-17 but remained on duty,his name was noted for gallant+distinguished conduct on 31-7-17,special mention was made of him in sir douglas haighs despatches on 7th november 1917,posted to 17th batt 6-2-18 then transferred to the border regt on 6-6-18
he lived at 20 morris green lane bolton and worked as a joiners apprentice,age on enlistment 19yrs

mack

[Tim Bell]

Thanks Mack,

You've led me to a 'hidden' Service Record.  I will look later, but assume James was attached to the Border Regiment, prior to his posting a few days after his Deed.

Tim

[PhilipG]

Tim,
My opinion for what worth.

From what Mack has written it would seem the Border Regt would "claim" the award, although there is no mention of it in the Border Regiment's History.

However, from what I have come across in respect of awards for valour to officers, there could be a tendency for the regiment into which the officer was commissioned to "claim" the award.     I cite the case of Lt.Col. Marshall V.C. (at one time 2 i/c 2nd. Mcrs).  Marshall "won" his V.C. when attached to and in command of the 16th L.Fus. and not unexpectedly, the Lancs.Fusiliers "claimed" Marshall's V.C.  However,Marshall was an Irish Guardsman and only attached to the Fusiliers.  The matter reached the Palace and King George V.  A ruling came down that the V.C. award "belonged" to the Irish Gds.  I hope all this helps.   Regards, PhilipG.

[mack]

sorry folks,but i think theres a bit of confusion here,looking at his citation and the mentions of gallantry,it would be my guess that he was awarded the DCM for his behaviour from 24h april 1917 till november 1917,nothing to do with 1918 or the border regt,WHICH he transferred to on 6th june 1918 as already stated.
the late gazette date could be because there were several witnessess to his actions and all needed to be contacted to verify the facts,it does say in his citation,"ON MANY OCCASIONS"

mack

[PhilipG]

Tim,
 The 17th Battalion's Regimental History has the following entries:-

Distinguished Conduct Medal
                                                                     Gazetted
24357   Dunn, J.    Pte                                         26.1.18
                                                                           3.6.18

Any help?  PhilipG

[Tim Bell]

Philip,

I'd seen the dual dates on Timberman's list and read the 3/6/18 as the Deed.  It's now clear this is the 1st Gazette entry, meaning Mack's interpretation is spot on - again.

Thanks all.  I'll try to read the Service Record now.

T

[mack]

the 26-1-1918 date would fit in with dougie haighs special mention despatch on 7th November 1917.

mack

[Tim Bell]

Mack,

I see the Official History / Record showing gazette entries on 3/6/18 & 21/10/18.  James was absorbed in 17th when the whole of 19th Bttn was disbanded on 6/2/18.  It's possible the award relates to repeated work at St Quentin in March 1918, but may also be the previous work recognised by Haigh the previous autumn - or both.  

CSM J E Young was awarded DCM with the same Gazette date entries.  His DCM MIC confirms 17th Bttn, providing a little more support to the Official History.

The DCM certainly does NOT relate to the 1st Bttn Border Rgmnt.

For the moment I'll assume the 17th Bttn, although I'm a bit surprised to see only 3 DCMs for the men of 19th Bttn, compared with 11 for 16th, almost 20 for the 17th & 11 for 18th.  The difference may be explained by the incorrect allocation to the recipients' Bttn on the date of Gazette.

James has a full service history, but nothing more associated with the DCM than I've picked up.  Apparent posting in 2nd, 3rd, 11th, 14th, 17th, 19th Manchesters and 1st Borders is quite a list - some are very temporary.

T