The Manchester Regiment Forum
The Great War => 1914 - 1918 => Topic started by: phil wardle on September 05, 2008, 03:27:22 PM
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Hi
I looking for information on my Grandfather - postings, group photos, etc. Can anyone help?
Regards
Phil W
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Hi Phil
and welcome to the group
i am sure we can find some information for you about harry
i will move this over to the great war section where it will get better attention
cheers
chris
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Hi Phil, and a Warm Welcome to our Forum !
I'll post his MIC, which you may already have, but it helps us to see it. Do you have any other info regarding him (family snippets etc)
Did he survive the war?
Wendi :)
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Wendi
Hope this gets to you - a bit unsure how to use the system yet. Thanks for your reply.
My grandad survived the war and lived until ~1968. He never really spoke about what happened, other than telling me about having dead colleages next to him in the Somme tenches. I wish I had asked more, but was young and it wasn't as important to me then, as it is now.
I would like to find out whether he was involved in the Ypres battles - I'm going there next weekend. He mentioned he went, but when I look at the battalion history, it says they finished up in Italy.
Regards
Phil
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No worries Phil, I saw your reply, thank you !
Where did you get your info regarding the 22nd?
There were earlier battles in Ypres
First Battle of Ypres (October 19 – November 22, 1914)
Second Battle of Ypres (April 22 – May 15, 1915)
Third Battle of Ypres (July 31 – November 6, 1917) (also known as Passchendaele)
Fourth Battle of Ypres (September 28 – October 2, 1918) (also known as the Battle of Ypres 1918)
But Battalion history is not my department :-X So It'll be up to one of the chaps to reply ;D
Kind regards
Wendi :)
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Wendi
Thanks again.
Please could you tell me what MIC stands for?
Being the eldest son of his eldest son, I have inherited his "The Small Book" in a tatty wallet, also containing a picture of his mother. That's where I got the information about his batallion. Do you know if it's possible to find out which, if any, of the battles of Ypres is was involved in?
I also have an envelope with three medals:
Copper star with crossed swords and his name and number engraved on the back
A silver coin like medal with a horse on one side and George 4th on the other
A gold coin like medal with The Great War on one side and a winged human figure on the other.
There is also an Austrian medal with "Der Tapferkeit" on one side and Franz Joseph on the other. It has a red and white ribbon - how he got this, one can only guess.
Something else that comes to mind, probably only relevant to the family, is that he called is eldest daughter Terris Godville Wardle - strange to everyone. He said that it was because the people were he spend some time were very kind and so was the red cross. We've searched for a place called Godville withourt success, but it might be a corruption of a French word.
Regards
Phil
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hi phil!
the 22nd battalion
On the 11th November 1915 they landed at Boulogne and on the 20th December 1915. they became part of the 91st Brigade 7th Division. The 22nd had their first experience of the trenches training with the Royal Irish Fusiliers.
In February 1916 they arrived at the Somme, opposite the German held fortified village of Mametz, east of Fricourt. On the 2nd June A company carried out a trench raid on a German listening post. After weeks of rehearsal, sixty men attacked after a substantial bombardment. The attack was a success but not without cost as the problem of uncut wire, which was to be a major factor in the oncoming Battle of the Somme, caused many casualties.
On the 1st July, the battle of the Somme commenced, the 22nd, as part of 7th Division, would be attacking Fricourt in a pincer movement. The 21st were to remain in reserve until Fricourt was ready to be assaulted, while the 91st brigade was to attack Bunny Alley and Fritz trench. The 22nd achieved their first objective of Bucket Trench and moved on the Danzig Alley but were driven back as german soldiers emerged unscathed from their underground bunkers. Re-enforced by the elements of the South Staffords, the 22nd took Danzig Trench. The brigade pushed forward and Mametz was taken. The battalion paid a terrible price, of the 796 men that started the day, they suffered 472 casualties. The battalion was relieved on the 5th July.
the 22nd rec'd 434 replacements but only 100 or so manchester lads, they were fighting again with in days
In November 1917 they moved to Italy where it remained in with the 7th Division.
On the 11th November 1918 as part of the 91st Brigade, 7th Division the battalion finished in the war in Italy, West of Udine.
i am not 100% certain but i think the 22nd never fought around Ypres, but thta's not to say that your GF didn't go there
i'm sure you'll enjoy your Belgium visit, it's a very emotional place
cheers
chris
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sounds a little like a battlefield souvenier
http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=709 (http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=709)
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harry was an early volunteer into the 22nd, unfortunately he missed the pals photos.
the medals you have are the 14/15 Star, the victory medal (the gold coloured one) and the british war medal, they should all be named on the rim and the star on the back, they were known affectionately as pip squeak and wilfred :), these are listed on his medal index card (MIC)
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Chris (harribobs)
Thanks - that's the medal, the bronze one. Do you think it was taken from someone he fought against?
Regards
Phil
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yes, i suspect he picked that up in italy
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Don't forget the Italians were our Allies in WWI. And very good soldiers too. Ignore the anti Italian propaganda of WWII.
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Thanks Robert
It's 45 years since I did history at school, thanks for reminding me.
Regards
Phil
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indeed, if you go to the cenotaph in manchester, there's a stone memorial that reads ( something like) 'in memory of our Italian allies'
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I would like to find out whether he was involved in the Ypres battles
They weren't involved in the main battles at Ypres, but the 22nd did go there (for about a month, I think) in Sept/Oct 1916. They were in the southern Salient (well, to be more accurate, they were actually just below the actual salient) in the vicinity of Ploegsteert Wood which was, at that time, regarded as a "rest" sector (unless you were a tunneler!!!!).
Dave
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Thanks Dave
My Grandad told me he'd been to Ypres, but there doesn't appear to be any record of the 22nd having gone there. He never mentioned Italy (which is where the records say the 22nd finished the war) and I checked with his only surviving child, my aunty at the weekend and he never mentioned Italy to her. Should have asked all these questions when I was younger.
Regards
Phil
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Forgot to mention another stay... they were actually in the Salient for a short period a year later during 3rd Ypres too (central sector - area of the Menin Road) in September/Oct 1917 just before shipping out to italy.
Dave
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Thanks Dave
Phil
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Dave
I've just realised the relevance of the stay in Ploegsteert. My Grandfather was a coal hewer by trade, I bet he went there to help with the tunnelling at Mesen?
Regards
Phil
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Wendi, Harribobs
Just wonder if you knew whether Goderville was a rest/ hospital place for the 22nd M/Cr. The reason I ask is that my Grandfather said he was treated very well by the Red Cross - which we think were in Goderville. After the war he had a daughter and called her Terris Godville Wardle - quite unusual names. We wonder whether Godville came from Goderville. Can you shed any light.
Regards
Phil W
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doesn't ring any bells with me, but my memory is terrible these days 8)
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Goderville is a commune in the Seine-Maritime département in the Haute-Normandie region of France.
tisgrannie
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Cemetery: GODERVILLE COMMUNAL CEMETERY
Country: France
Locality: unspecified
Location Information: Goderville is a small but important market town 29 kilometres north-east of Le Havre, on the main Le Havre-Fecamp-Dieppe road (N.25). The communal cemetery is in the fields south-west of the town, approximately 1 kilometre from the town centre. It is down a rough road leading right off the Goderville-Manneville road (D.10). Located about 30 yards north of the crucifix in the centre of the cemetery is the grave of a British officer.
No. of Identified Casualties: 1
This man was in WW11, awful to think he is on his own!
tisgrannie
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Hi Phil I was just looking to see if there was mention of a Military Hospital or clearing Station. Seems a bit far away from the action. Unless someone on here knows differently. Just trying to find a link for you to Goderville.
regards
tisgrannie
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Thanks tisgrannie
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Hi guys, my first post. Just got back from Belgium a couple of weeks ago visiting L/Cpl Samuel Jones' grave at Lissenhoek near Popperinghe. The 22nd did serve at 3rd Ypres at the Battle of Broodseinde Ridge, 4th Oct 1917. I'll try and post a new thread with some photos of the battelfield today if I can work out how.
Nick
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hi i have just found my great uncles details and notice there are only two numbers differance in their service numbers i could use more info on my uncles regiment and photos if possible
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hi i have just found my great uncles details and notice there are only two numbers differance in their service numbers i could use more info on my uncles regiment and photos if possible
hiya lee.
was your uncle pte sam friar
mack ;D
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pte 25662 harry wardle
enl 6-9-15
aged 20
27th manchesters
posted to 22nd manchesters
occupation,miner
resided 16 carrington st,pendlebury
father,john
religion CofE
born,manchester
landed in france 24-12-15
28-4-16 forfeited 7 days pay for falling out on the line of march without permission
6-9-17 awarded 1/6 proficiency pay
23-2-18 to italy
19-8-18,embarked from cherbourg on the SS monas queen for england,to be discharged at oswestry to be transferred to the army reserve on 27-1-1919, as a released miner
mack ;D
he recieved his medals,on 6-10-1921
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Hello,
My Gt grandfather was also in the 22nd Battalion. There is an archive at Ashton Library, Greater Manchester. There is a typed copy of the Battalion diary which details where they were throughtout the war. Its very sober reading. " rifles became useless with the mud and could only be used as clubs". but it gives village by village locations and lists where there were in Italy. Again i had no idea the British even fought in Italy! Places i have been skiing near they were fighting up.
The Ref for the document is mr1/3/1/48. I have been told via this site you can read this at Kew archives too but not sure on the deatils on how to do that.
There is a photo of his officiers in Italty in the photo section under hgc wood 21st Manchester. ( the 21st went with the 22nd to Italy)
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Hi
I've been out of it for quite a while due to work commitment, but have just received some information, which may be of interest to others. I have 5 photographs of soldiers, two JT Beadle postcards my grandfather sent to his mother at Christmas and a postcard of Asiago in Italy, where I guess 22nd were located.
I was thinking of uploading scans of these - please could you advise whether there's a special procedure or area of the forum where I should send these?
Cheers
Phil W
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Hi Phil
If you follow this link
http://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?board=10.0
Scroll down then click on the
How to post a photo to the forum
This explains how to post them
Then post them in the 16th -24th Bn section
Thanks
Timberman
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Did these pics ever get posted?
It would be nice to see then.....
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For anyone interested in this topic there is a book on the 22nd Bn.
The 22nd Battalion Manchester Regiment
Alastair Cowan
The 22nd Battalion Manchester Regiment
The 22nd Manchesters was the seventh of t he PALS Battalions raised by the City of Manchester in the autumn of 1914. After basic training at Morecambe and Grantham it went to France to join 7th Infantry Division in November 1915, taking part in the battles of Montauban, Mametz, Beaumont Hamel and Ypres. Then to Italy as part of the British element serving with the Italian army against the Austrians, particularly distinguishing itself in the battle of the Piave.
If you follow this link it takes you to the Museum of the Manchester's books for sale web site.
https://www.tameside.gov.uk/museumsgalleries/mom/publications
Timberman