Author Topic: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project  (Read 275 times)

Offline Tim Bell

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17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« on: February 03, 2019, 10:57:33 AM »
Sgt 8515 H M Dobson XX Pln  E Coy 17th Bttn

The Salford Pals Roll shows 2/Lt H M Dobson was OC VII of 20th Lancs Fusils, who is identified as Capt Henry Mark Dobson.

It is possible for this to be the same man shown in City Bttns and Salford Pals Books of Honour?  His 8515 number shows enlistement on 3/9/1914 and he may have received his commission in LF on 21st June 1915 (LG 17/7/1915).

Any ideas?
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Offline PhilipG

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2019, 12:44:05 PM »
Tim,
  In the Manchester City Battalions Book of Honour for the 17th Manchesters - Platoon XX, there is only one sergeant listed as being on the accompanying platoon photograph.  He is named as Sgt. H.M.Dobson and is sitting on his officer's left-hand side.    Comparing the photograph of this NCO with a similar platoon photograph in the Lancashire Fusiliers' Roll of Honour book for VII Platoon, 20th Lancs.Fus., I would venture to say that you are on fairly safe ground to assume it is the same man.    PhilipG.

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2019, 01:21:41 PM »
Thanks Philip,
I don't have access to the Lancs Fusils book.  Very helpful.
T
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2019, 05:11:27 PM »
Pte 8582 Robert Garlick

Robert was gassed on the Somme, evacuated and then served at Home with 3rd Bttn 69TRB and RWF.  He was discharged suffering bronchial complaints linked to his gassing. His Pension Record (Undated) notes he was deceased.  It appears Robert was orphaned and I can find no Effects record.  I can't find his death record either and wonder if he is a non-commemoration.
Any help appreciated.
Tim
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Offline mack

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2019, 04:01:45 AM »
hiya tim.
I think he died in 1948,theres a Robert garlick from the Prestwich area who matches his age exactly,i have during my own research,come across a couple of these pension records stamped deceased,and it turned out that both men died many many years after the war,the man in question appears in the 1939 register,good hunting

mack

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2019, 11:03:01 AM »
Thanks Mack,
Good work as ever.
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Offline PhilipG

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 04:41:38 PM »
Tim,

He's in the Book of Honour - "C" Coy.  X platoon.  PhilipG.

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2019, 02:48:44 PM »
Thanks Philip,
I had the Pln No.  I'm using the roll to fill in most of the names of the 1914-15 volunteers and then fill in the gaps.  There's more casualties than I expected.  For example

L/Cpl 9206 Stanley Gething

XIX Pln - professional pianist from Colwyn Bay, who trained in New York.  After 8 months with 17th Bttn, he moved to Inn's of Court OTC, prior to commission in RFA 29/12/1915.  He resigned his commission & re-enlisted in the Artist's Rifles #763850 to be Killed in Action 30/10/1917 with 1/28th London Regiment.

My roll isn't good enough to publish yet, but I'll happily share it when it is more complete.  I'll be asking questions on some elusive names in due course.  The data published since 2014 certainly helps, but I have too many gaps still.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 05:13:49 PM by Tim Bell »
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 05:36:36 PM »
Sgt 9010 J Illingworth XIV Pln

I can't find overseas service for this chap. A John Illingworh was Pln OC in 20th Lancs Fusils - commissioned 28/8/1915.  Please could someone (Philip?) have a look at the photos and see if they are the same?

Backing up the theory, his service file includes:-
Service record   Rank: Sergeant, Corps: Manchester Regiment
Second service record   Rank: Second Lieutenant, Corps: Lancashire Fusiliers
Third service record   Rank: Lieutenant and Adjutant, Corps: Royal Air Force


Thanks
Tim
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 05:40:35 PM by Tim Bell »
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Offline PhilipG

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2019, 08:17:13 PM »
Tim,

I carried out your request, sadly without a satisfactory result.    I found the name - J. Illingworth - in the Lancs. Fus. photo album, but alas, like many of the officers whose names were recorded, no photograph of Illingworth was published.   Sorry. PhilipG.

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 11:50:58 AM »
Philip,
Thanks for checking.  I think the other records give me solid ground that this is the same man.
Tim
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2019, 05:57:44 PM »
Pte 9405 J Jibson XIX Pln, E Coy

I can find no record of this man serving overseas.
Pte 9405 Herbert Jibson from Middleton served in KLR with subsequent #406722.  There is a contradiction in his records.  The Medal Roll shows he gained his 1914/15 Star for disembarking in France on 8/11/1915, with 17th KLR.  His SWB record says he enlisted 26/2/1915.
The Pension Record provides #406722 enlisted on a recreated Territorial Enlistment record.  It also shows service in France 15/7/1915-10/7/1916.
9405 fits with 17th Manchesters number sequence and Disembarking 8/11/1915 also fits, with the number and uncommon surname also corresponding.  Evacuation to England on 10/7/1916 fits both ways.
The Book of Honour has numerous errors and I've seen Star Roll errors.  Does anyone else have a clue to unravel this?
Tim
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 03:53:28 PM by Tim Bell »
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2019, 07:21:02 PM »
Pte 9334 F A Long XVII Pln

I've found no records in the Manchesters. A Frederick A Long joined Military Foot Police P/9737.  Is there any way of checking if this is the same chap?  He may have been a Policeman before?

Tim
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Offline mack

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2019, 12:15:28 PM »
hiya tim
there was no policeman from the Manchester police by this name who enlisted,sorry

mack

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 17th Battalion Roll - A long term project
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2019, 05:20:12 PM »
Thanks for checking Mack
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