Author Topic: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.  (Read 9022 times)

Susan Cummings

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2013, 04:34:32 PM »
Hi,

I have just joined the forum although I did see your messages a while ago.
Thomas Bould was my grandmother's brother.  I always knew about him but only really started looking for him a few months ago. 
All I know about him is that he was about 21 when he died, he was born in Glossop in 1896 and at the time of his death his address was in Hyde.
I would like to visit the cemetery at Montmedy and note that someone said they had some photos of it?  I would be very interested in seeing them. 
Hope someone can help me and look forward to any further information about Tom you may have.

Offline tonyrod

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2013, 05:41:12 PM »
HI SUSAN, Try this link to our war grave photos, your g/uncle is the only Manchester buried in  Montmedy,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester-regiment/sets/72157613234033918/

 from 1911 census,
Thomas Bould    Age in 1911:   14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation to Head:   Son
Gender:   Male
Birth Place:   Glossop, Derbyshire, England
Civil parish:   Hyde
County/Island:   Cheshire
Street Address:   2 Parbrotter St Hyde
Marital Status:   Single
Occupation:   Printer (comperetor)
Thomas Bould   48 father  (baker)
Sarah Bould     48 mother (cotton weaver)
Thomas Bould   14
Loisa Bould           12 sister

Births Mar 1897  
Bould    Thomas     Hayfield   
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 06:22:11 PM by tonyrod »

Offline mack

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2013, 08:24:09 PM »
thomas lived at 153 mottram rd,hyde,hes named on the war memorial in hyde town hall.

mack ;D

Susan Cummings

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2013, 07:57:39 PM »
Thank you so much for the photos and the information.  It is very moving to actually see his gravestone.  I definitely will go.  I think after 95 years it is time that a member of his family actually visited him to show he is not forgotten!
I wonder why he was buried in a German cemetery, I suppose at the time it was the nearest place.  It says on the information about the cemetary that the four commonwealth soldiers were buried in a mass grave, so does this mean that the whole cemetary is a mass grave with the headstones just placed around, not particularly over where the bodies actually lie?   I dont really understand. 
Were there any battles fought nearby early in 1918.  I have heard about the Battle of Manchester Hill but not sure of its proximity to the cemetary. 
Any further information would be greatly appreciated.   
Sue

Offline mack

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2013, 12:21:27 AM »
hiya sue
its only the graves in section 3 that are mass graves,ime fairly sure the headstones are above the actual grave,otherwise the CWGC would have erected a headstone with the wording "buried near this spot" carved on it

mack ;D

timberman

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2013, 08:27:45 PM »
Hi Sue
I don�t have access to my Manchester�s research material at the moment, I think I gave Tis all the photos I took of the Cemetery( these are on the Flickr site) I hope the following will be of some help.

Some information on what Montmedy was used for by the Germans for most of the war.
THERE was no lack of food at Montm�dy. The canteens were provided with everything; prices were high, however. Montm�dy is a third-class French fortress and is situated like Ehrenbreitstein on a height which is very steep on one side; the town is situated at the foot of the hill. The fortress was taken by the Germans without a struggle. The garrison who had prepared for defense before the fortress, had their retreat cut off. A railroad tunnel passes through the hill under the fortress, but that had been blown up by the French. The Germans laid the rails round the hill through the town so as to establish railroad communications with their front. It looked almost comical to watch the transport trains come rolling on through the main street and across the market place. Everywhere along the Meuse the destroyed bridges had been replaced by wooden ones. Montm�dy was the chief base of the Fifth Army (that of the Crown Prince), and contained immense stores of war material. Besides that it harbored the field post-office, the headquarters for army provisions, a railroad management, and a great number of hospitals. The largest of them used to be called the "theater hospital," on account of its being installed in the municipal theater and the adjoining houses, and always contained from 500 to 600 wounded.


Things were very lively at Montm�dy. One chiefly observed convalescent soldiers walking through the streets and a remarkable number of officers, all of whom had been attached to the various departments. They loitered about in their faultless uniforms, or rode along whip in hand. Moreover, they had not yet the slightest idea of what war was like, and when we met them they expected us to salute them in the prescribed manner. Many of them accosted us and asked us rudely why we did not salute. After a few hours we got sick of life twenty miles behind the Verdun front.

This is what I think happened.

Private T Bould 20616 was taken prisoner at or there about in March 1918 when the 16th Battalion had their last (major) battle at Manchester Hill.
He was possibly wounded but transported as far as Montmedy where the Germans had several hospitals, treated but died of his wounds. As it says on the soldiers that died site.

All the German graves with black crosses and the Jewish head stones are for individual soldiers. The four Commonwealth burials are in section No. 3, in "mass graves" with French, Belgian, Italian, Russian and German soldiers. There are also mass graves for the German soldiers these are the ones with the big granite crosses.

From St Quentin France (where the 16th Bn were fighting) to Montmedy France (where he died ) is 214 km,
See map below.

It is worth a trip                                       

Timberman

Click on the picture to make it bigger.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 01:30:41 PM by timberman »

timberman

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2014, 02:01:36 PM »
Here are the Red Cross papers for Tom
If anyone can translate them for me I
will be grateful.

timberman

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2014, 02:03:20 PM »
And these please.

Thanks
Timberman

Offline charlie

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2014, 02:37:23 PM »
Image 1.

Tom,Kap (I cant translate it but is obviously an abbreviation for a rank), 60 Manchester Regt, A Coy. Born 21.12.97 in Dinting. Died 02.05.18 due to schrapnel wounds to both legs at the Field Hospital in Montmedy.

Image 2.

Cap (again ?), 60 Manchester Regt, A Coy. Born 21.12.97 in Dinting (Derby),  a Baker. Died. 02.05.18 at the FH in Montmedy due to an infection of the lungs and leg injuries. Buried in the new war cemetery Montmedy, communal grave 10. File No 21033/W

Image 3.

Cell 2: Bould Tom, Regtl No unknown

Cell 3: Pte

Cell 4: 60Bn Manchester Regt.

Cell 5: Date of capture unknown
           Died  02.05.18 Lung infection
          Previous whereabouts - Front

Cell 6: Date and place of birth - unknown
          NoK - unknown

Charlie

timberman

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2014, 03:01:51 PM »
Thank-you Charlie

It all adds to the story of Tom
we now know what wounds he had
and the reason for his death.

His Bn was the 16th and now I'm sure he was
captured at Manchester Hill on the 21st of March 1918. 

I started this topic on the 24th May 2008
and bits pop up every so often to add to his story.

So for other people looking for information on their relatives,
you never know where the next bit of info will come from.
Keep looking!

Thanks again Charlie

Timberman :)
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 03:05:47 PM by timberman »

Offline mack

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2016, 04:29:26 PM »
Image 1.

Tom,Kap (I cant translate it but is obviously an abbreviation for a rank), 60 Manchester Regt, A Coy. Born 21.12.97 in Dinting. Died 02.05.18 due to schrapnel wounds to both legs at the Field Hospital in Montmedy.

Image 2.

Cap (again ?), 60 Manchester Regt, A Coy. Born 21.12.97 in Dinting (Derby),  a Baker. Died. 02.05.18 at the FH in Montmedy due to an infection of the lungs and leg injuries. Buried in the new war cemetery Montmedy, communal grave 10. File No 21033/W

Image 3.

Cell 2: Bould Tom, Regtl No unknown

Cell 3: Pte

Cell 4: 60Bn Manchester Regt.

Cell 5: Date of capture unknown
           Died  02.05.18 Lung infection
          Previous whereabouts - Front

Cell 6: Date and place of birth - unknown
          NoK - unknown

Charlie
hiya Charlie
sorry its a bit late only just found him.

20616 Thomas bould,2 fairbrother st,hyde,16th batt,A.coy,captured Manchester hill 21-3-18,shrapnel both legs,death a result of his injuries and pneumonia 2-5-15

mack ;D

Offline charlie

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Re: Private T Bould 20616, bit of a puzzle.
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2016, 07:01:12 PM »
Mack, better late than never :)

Charlie