Author Topic: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)  (Read 4463 times)

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2017, 09:58:47 PM »
Charlie,

Their names were in a list of Leicestershires taken prisoner on the 27th May 1918,   Acocks was repatriated on the 25th December 1918 and Morgan on the 2nd January 1919.

Incidentally, there is in that list, the name of 2nd Lt B.L.Asquith of the 6th Leicestershires and who was attached from the Manchesters, being  taken prisoner on the 21st March 1918 and subsequently repatriated on the 17th December 1918.  PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2017, 07:45:38 PM »
Thank you Philip.
I am unable to find any connection to the Manchesters for 2/Lts Acocks and Morgan MM. Both were Commissioned from the Ranks into the Gloucestershire Regt before being attached to the Leicestershire Regt, 2/Lt Acocks from the RAVC and 2/Lt Morgan from the RE.

2/Lt Bernard Lister Asquith was commissioned from the Ranks into the Manchesters on 28.08.1917. He was taken at Epehy on 22.03.1918. He had previously served as a Pte with 10/RF.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2017, 09:57:31 PM »
Charlie,

Thank you.  I wonder, please, if you would like to see if the following were attached from the Manchesters?   It may be that the names have been transposed.  Transferred into the 6th Leicesters from the Manchesters could be 2nd Lt. A.F.Clark and 2nd Lt C.W. Marten.  POW's 27.5.1918.      Would you mind? PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2017, 07:33:25 PM »
Philip,
They were both Commissioned from the Ranks.  2/Lt Marten from the Royal Warwickshire Regt into the Gloucestershire Regt and 2/Lt Clark from the Gloucestershire Regt into the Leicestershire Regt.
Always happy to help.
Charlie

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2017, 08:28:03 PM »
Charlie,

Thank you.   The result of your kind research ties in with the records.  Many thanks.   Quite a mystery regarding Acocks and Morgan. Many thanks.  PhilipG.

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2017, 09:00:03 PM »
The records indicate that the 2nd East Lancashire Regiment in action at Berry au Bac on the 27th May 1918 suffered very heavy casualties.  Included in the figures were the names of three officers who were on attachment to the battalion from the Manchester Regiment and who became prisoners of war on that day.  They were:-   2nd Lieutenants G.Fletcher, D. Roper and W.Yelland.

In respect of the 10th Cheshires on the same day and which was in action around Gernieruirt, the Regimental History reports that the battalion "disappeared".  Two officers from the Manchesters on attachment to the battalion were made prisoners of war.  They were :-2nd Lieutenants P.Cookson and W.P.Hunter.   In connection with Lieutenant Hunter, his capture is recorded as being between the 27th May and the 30th of May.   PhilipG.

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2017, 03:58:32 PM »
Charlie,

I wonder, please, if you would kindly take a look at Reply No. 7?   I note that Lieutenant R.H. Tautz MC is referred to in the 4th Bn. Loyal North Lancs.' history as being wounded in action with that battalion on the 20th September 1917 whilst serving in the Ypres sector.  It would seem that his Military Cross could have been in recognition of his bravery in that action in which the battalion incurred very heavy casualties.  Later, as you say, he was attached to the 2nd Berkshires on the 17th April (1918).

Turning now to Lieutenant Edward Kerruish Moore who it appears was also posted to the 2nd Berks. on the 17th April, only to DOW on the 25th April 1918, I see that the CWGC have him down as being an officer in the 9th Manchesters.   However, "Officers Died" have him recorded as an officer in the 8th battalion and his surname as Kerrnish.

The CWGC state that Moore is buried in Daours Communal Cemetery Extn. which is near Amiens, that is a goodly distance to move a casualty from the Chemin des Dames where the 2nd Berks. were in the line on the day in question.  Do you think there is something adrift with the records?   PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2017, 07:26:20 PM »
Philip,
Unless I have missed something, 2/Lts Fletcher, Roper and Yelland were all Commissioned into the South Lancs Regt and have no connection with the Manchesters.

2/Lt Percy Cookson was Commissioned from the Ranks into the 4th Bn, he had previously served with the Essex Regt.

2/Lt William Penderleith Hunter was also Commissioned from the Ranks into the 4th Bn, worthy of note is that he had previously served in the RN (presumably the RND) and RMLI. He was captured on 29.05.1918 at Savigny and was held as a PoW at Rastatt and Stralsund-Dänholm.

Lt Tautz gained his MC for 19/20th May 1917 near Wieltze

EK Moore - his MiC records his name as Kerrish but both The LG and the GRO register record his name as Kerrnish. I think the Gazette and GRO are correct. His MiC also records that he served with the 2/9th as a Sgt and with the 8th after he was Commissioned.

Unfortunately there was not a specific date in the Berkshires WD regarding the date of him being wounded. It is possible that he was wounded at any time between the 17th and 25th. In my opinion I would suggest that he was being moved down the chain of evacuation when he died.

Charlie
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 08:30:54 PM by charlie »

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2017, 07:39:31 AM »
Charlie,

Thank you yet again for another helpful contribution.  PhilipG.

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2017, 10:26:03 AM »
Charlie,

In their report, the Graves Registration unit under date 24th October 1919 advise the following burials at Daours Communal Cemetery. Extn.

Lt. C.B.Cooper     Royal Berks. Regt.  Died 24.4.18   Grave 3.B. 48
Lt. T.Moore          Manchester Regt.   Died 25.4.18    Grave 3.B. 49

It would now appear the above named were in fact the following officers:-

Lt. Spencer Bruce Cooper of the Wiltshire Regt attached to the 2nd Royal Berkshire Regt.
Died of wounds 24.4.18. Grave 3.B.48. Daours Comm. Cemetery. Extn.
Lt. Edward Kerruish Moore (could be Edward Kerrnish Moore) Manchester Regt. Attd. 2nd R.Berks.
Died of wounds 25.4.18. Grave 3.B.49. Daours Comm. Cemetery. Extn.

In this thread I drew attention to the fact that Daours Comm. Cemetery. Extn was near Amiens and "a goodly distance to move a casualty from the Chemin des Dames............".   After further research in respect of casualties I now wonder whether or not, in respect of the above officers, their wounds could have taken place when the battalions were en route to the Chemin des Dames battlefield.  In this connection are you able, please, to ascertain where the 2nd R.Berks. were likely to be when Lt. Moore became a casualty?    PhilipG.
 

Offline charlie

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2017, 07:29:00 PM »
Philip,
The 2nd Bn Royal Berkshire Regt did not move to the Chemin des Dames area till the 5th May 1918 when they entrained at Saleux for the move to Fere en Tardenois.

The War Diary has the following locations for the relevant period in April:
13-20th - in Divisional Reserve and training, Lamotte Brebiere,
20th - Relieved 54th Australian Battalion in the line on the night of 20/21st April 1918 and became "Counter Attack Bn" North of Villers Bretoneux.
21-30th - in Watou area in Divisional Reserve and training.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2017, 10:26:44 AM »
Charlie,
 Thank you for that info.   I have had a look at the Official History in the matter of the actions at Villers Bretonneux for the 25th April 1918.  I found a report that the 2nd R.Berks. on that day had been `"mopping up" and I tend to assume that it was at that stage Lieutenant Edward K. Moore (late of the 9th Manchesters) became a casualty.    Quite sad, especially as he only joined the Berkshires on the 17th April.   His later burial in Daours Comm. Cemetery Extension  "fits in".

As you know, the Chemin des Dames area was classified by the French as a militarily quiet area.  I noted that not only the battle weary Berkshires, but also the 2nd East Lancs. had suffered too.  Nevertheless, on the Order of Battle for the Chemin des Dames in respect of the 27th May 1918, I find both battalions in the front line near Berry au Bac.  Perhaps some further research would be interesting.   PhilipG

Offline charlie

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2017, 01:35:36 PM »
Thanks Philip,
The Chemin des Dames is an area I also find interesting due to my Great Uncle being taken there on the 27th May, whilst serving with 15 Field Coy RE.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2017, 10:24:25 AM »
Charlie,

I came across 438575 Sapper William Reay of 15th Field Coy. R E who was Kia 29.5.1918 and is buried in Rethel French National Cemetery, but perhaps you have already come across his name?  PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: Lt. Robert Vincent Gilliat : 10th Manchesters (attd. 2 Royal Berks.)
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2017, 06:57:23 PM »
Thank you Philip, information on the Field Coy for that time is, perhaps understandably, thin on the ground.

Charlie