Author Topic: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914  (Read 6002 times)

Offline PhilipG

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8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« on: January 05, 2017, 10:59:17 AM »
This soldier was killed during the Battle of the Aisne, when "on one day whilst holding an outpost in Chivres Wood", the battalion had 15 men killed (and 47 wounded).   As regards the men killed, I have discovered the above named soldier - Pte Cooke - is buried in Vailly British Cemetery.

Is there any information as regards the last resting place of the remaining soldiers who were apparently killed on that day, please?  PhilipG.

Offline sphinx

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2017, 11:11:40 AM »
Philip,

Can you re check your dates, nothing like that happened on or about the date of his death.

regards

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2017, 01:32:07 PM »
Sphinx,

Thank you for your kind interest.  The 2nd Manchesters were in the 5th Div. and part of the 14th Brigade.   On the 13th September 1914 the battalion relieved the 2nd Lancashire Fusiliers of the 12th Brigade of the 4th Div.  On the 20th September the 2nd Manchesters were relieved by the 1st DCLI., also of the 14th Brigade.

So the query now appears to relate to one day in the period 13th September to 20th September inclusive. Regards, PhilipG.

timberman

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2017, 01:57:00 PM »
20th
1st DCLI relieved the Bn in the wood and went into reserve.

 VAILLY BRITISH CEMETERY, Aisne, France
COOKE, Private, J, 8942, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 September 1914. Grave
Ref. II. G. 19.

He is the only one for 20th.
But not mentioned in the war diary?

Neil
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 05:20:15 PM by timberman »

timberman

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2017, 02:00:27 PM »
15th

Sniping and shell fire accounted for 15 Killed and 47 wounded.

Neil

Offline charlie

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2017, 02:02:48 PM »
The 16th looks to be the day, all are commemorated on the La Ferte Sous Jouarre Memorial

surname   forename   initials   age_text   honours_awards   date_of_death   date_of_death2   rank   regiment   unitshipsquadron   Country   servicenumberexport   cemeterymemorial   gravereference   additionalinformation
CUMMINGS   JOHN   J   22      14/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '2846'   VAUXBUIN FRENCH NATIONAL CEMETERY   III. C. 6.   Son of John and Margaret Ann Cummings. Born at Rochdale.
McCABE   JOHN   J   30      14/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '8909'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      Husband of Charlotte Tetlow (formerly McCabe), of 1, Ledge St., Ancoats, Manchester.
SMITH   ARTHUR   A   31      14/09/1914      Lance Corporal   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '9723'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      Son of Mrs. Annie Smith, of 15, Station Rd., Patricroft; husband of Ellen Smith, of 17, Ivy St., Patricroft, Manchester.
WOOD   JOHN THOMAS   J T   36      14/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '8123'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      Son of Benjamin Wood; husband of Elizabeth Ann Latimer (formerly Wood), of 28, Bury St., Salford, Manchester.
APPLETON   GEORGE   G   20      14/09/1914      Corporal   Manchester Regiment   "E" Coy. 2nd Bn.   France   '1972'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      Son of William Appleton, of 32, Howard St., Hulme, Manchester.
BELL   PERCY   P   29      14/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   "D" Coy. 2nd Bn.   France   '8067'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      Son of Francis Robert and Sarah Ann Bell, of 12, Hall St., Moston, Manchester.
DONOVAN   WILLIAM   W         14/09/1914      Lance Corporal   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '8885'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      
LORD   SYLVESTER   S         14/09/1914      Lance Corporal   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '8887'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      
MARSH   WILLIAM JAMES   W J   21      15/09/1914      Corporal   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '2027'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      Son of William J. and Louisa Marsh, of 19, Barnado St., Stepney, London.
SEALE   EDWARD   E         15/09/1914      Corporal   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '226'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      
McKEW   REUBEN   R   29      16/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '63'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      Husband of Ruth McKew, of 12, Gorton Place, Longsight, Manchester.
MASSEY   WILLIAM   W         16/09/1914      Lance Corporal   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '386'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      
METCALF   RICHARD   R         16/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '7989'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      
MORRIS   JAMES GUST   J G   31      16/09/1914      Company Serjeant Major   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '8731'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      Medaille Militaire (France). Husband of Henrietta Rabone (formerly Morris), of "Wyrendale," Montague Rd., Ashton-under-Lyne, Lancs.
ROTHWELL   PERCY   P         16/09/1914      Serjeant   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '9594'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      
WALKDEN   JOE   J   28      16/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '8670'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      Husband of Ellen Walkden, of 7, Anglesea Avenue, Harpurhey, Manchester.
BURNS   WILLIAM   W         16/09/1914      Lance Corporal   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '9893'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      
FLANNERY   JOHN   J         16/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '2657'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      
FURNIVAL   RICHARD   R         16/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '7984'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      
HILTON   ARNOLD   A         16/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '410'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      
LEADSOM   GEORGE   G   36      16/09/1914      Corporal   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '8545'   LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL      Son of Thomas and Lucy Leadsom, of Manchester.
ANDRESS      W J         18/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '2614'   LE MANS WEST CEMETERY   Plot 38. 1914-18 Row A. Grave 11.   
GROGAN   WILLIAM   W   35      19/09/1914      Corporal   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '6365'   NEUILLY-SUR-SEINE NEW COMMUNAL CEMETERY   4. 17. 5.   (Served as MURRAY)  Son of William and Mary Grogan, of 7, Acom St., York Rd., Leeds.
COOKE      J         20/09/1914      Private   Manchester Regiment   2nd Bn.   France   '8942'   VAILLY BRITISH CEMETERY

timberman

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 02:05:55 PM »
It's would seem that who ever wrote up the Bn Diary just
clubbed all the deaths together under one date?

Neil
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 04:59:41 PM by timberman »

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 04:49:18 PM »
Thanks to all concerned.  It would seem that shortly afterwards open warfare gave way to trench warfare Western Front style. PhilipG.

Offline mack

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2019, 01:52:29 AM »
hiya guys
sorry if this looks like me raising an old thread,but it concerns one of these men,CSM 8731 james,gust morris,he was awarded the French medaille militaire,CSM morris was killed on 16th sept,which is only 3 weeks since their first action at le cateau,is this medal awarded posthumously,if not,then when and where did he earn it and when was it gazetted

mack

Offline mack

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2019, 03:15:32 AM »
sgt 9594 percy Rothwell.D.coy
in 1920 sgt rothwells widow emma enquired about his burial place,she stated that she had visited france without success after being told by several people that he was shot by a sniper and died from loss of blood and he was buried at Julien farm,st marguerite.

she was puzzled by the fact that no trace of his burial could be found,because one of the personal effects that were returned to her was a penny stamp that he carried with him at all times,the other items were his cap badge,pay book and his ID disc.

mack

timberman

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2019, 08:22:32 AM »
 Mack

 From an earlier post in 2011 it says that.

 we later heard that sgt rothwell had died of his wounds in hospital
 sgt 9594 percy rothwell,14 robinson st,ashton

 If he was treated at a dressing station, then buried in the grounds. This could of be
 destroyed with later shelling or just lost. Because his ID disc had been removed he
 would not of been identified after the war when the bodies were collected and re-buried.

 Just a thought?

 Neil

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2019, 09:45:35 AM »
There's a way to look through all the Grave Registration Records.  I've done it before, but can't make it work now. See http://cefresearch.ca/wiki/index.php/Making_a_GRRF_or_COG-BR_Binder#Step_One:_Using_Google_Chrome

It's possible Sgt Rothwell may have some evidence in there.  I've looked for a KORL relative who was buried 1 1/2 Miles NW of Ypres.  Never found him though, despite looking at numerous Cemetery records for Concentration and Registrations. 
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2019, 10:11:11 AM »
                                                                                                                                                              Re CSM J.G.Morris

The La Ferte - sous - Jouarre Memorial commemorates All Ranks of the BEF killed at the Battles of Mons, Le Cateau, the Marne and Aisne from August to October 1914 and who have no known grave.  Perhaps this fact should be considered in respect of the award of the French decoration.  PhilipG.

Offline mack

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2019, 12:00:26 PM »
                                                                                                                                                              Re CSM J.G.Morris

The La Ferte - sous - Jouarre Memorial commemorates All Ranks of the BEF killed at the Battles of Mons, Le Cateau, the Marne and Aisne from August to October 1914 and who have no known grave.  Perhaps this fact should be considered in respect of the award of the French decoration.  PhilipG.
sorry Philip,i don't understand the connection with this memorial and a French gallantry award

mack

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 8942 Pte. J.Cooke : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt. : ,Kia 20.9.1914
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2019, 02:13:09 PM »
Mack,

Sorry.  Reply No. 5 by Charlie pointed to the fact that CSM Morris was commemorated on the La Ferte-sous-Jouarre Memorial.   Reference to the CWGC site for this casualty and under "History Information", it indicated that the memorial was in respect of BEF casualties who fell at the battles of Mons, Le Cateau, the Marne & the Aisne.   In other words, consideration should be given for the award being given for an action not only at Le Cateau.     

The "History Information" is well worth reading, in particular to the Mayor's gift of land to the Commission.   PhilipG.