Author Topic: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.  (Read 6678 times)

timberman

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2017, 11:44:27 AM »
Also there is a oval plaque in St Mary’s Church,
Denham, Buckinghamshire, near Uxbridge, West London


Captain Arthur George Tillard, d.1914, killed in action near La Bassoc,
and son David George Tillard, d.1929 in Marlborough, erected by the
unnamed wife and mother. An oval plaque with a narrow border and
cartouche with painted emblem on top.

Neil

Offline charlie

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2017, 02:51:44 PM »
Enquiries were made to the Red Cross in December 1914 regarding the fate of Capt. Tillard. Capt Selasinky was luckier and appears to have survived the war.


Offline PhilipG

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2017, 03:20:21 PM »
I take it that "Mrs Tillard's brother who had received a commission in the same regiment" was Captain Arthur Brooks Close-Brooks MC late of the 3rd Manchesters who DOW on the 10th January 1917 and is buried in Amara War Cemetery.  PhilipG.

timberman

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2017, 06:44:44 PM »
 
2nd Lieutenant Reginald Walker's lived at the Vicarage, Darlington
grandfather, John Walker (1803 in Kent), was a high court judge in India.
Reginald's father, Reverend David Walker, was born in Germany in 1854.
He married Martha Elizabeth Smith in Leeds in 1892 and Reginald was
born in 1894.

Neil
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 07:03:50 PM by timberman »

timberman

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2017, 06:49:41 PM »
Although Second Lieutenant  H W PRICE was wounded on the
20th October 1914 he would die later in the war.

His entry in the CWGC site.

PRICE, H W
Rank:
Second Lieutenant
Date of Death:
04/07/1916
Regiment/Service:
Manchester Regiment
4th Bn. attd. 2nd Bn.
Grave Reference:
F. 65.
Cemetery:
AVELUY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSIOn

Neil

timberman

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2017, 06:55:37 PM »
The following information can be found on this web site

http://www.ww1.manchester.ac.uk/

Walter Balshaw2nd Lieutenant, 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment.
Killed in action on Tuesday 20th October 1914 near La Bassee, age 24.
Remembered on Le Touret Memorial, France, Panels 34 and 35.
Former student of Science.
 

Born in 1890 at Bolton to Walter Balshaw, Solicitor, and E.A. Balshaw of 571 Chorley Old Road, Bolton.
Walter attended Bolton Municipal Secondary School where he was both cricket and football captain.
In the years 1906-9 he acted as Chief Prefect. He entered the University of Manchester in 1910 to
study science and continued to play cricket gaining the “Christie” bat for bowling and his colours in 1913.
As a member of the Officer Training Corps from October 1910 to July 1913 he obtained the proficiency
certificates “A” and “B” and was awarded a commission in 1913 as a Second Lieutenant in the Special
Reserve of Officers, Manchester Regiment.
At the outbreak of war Walter was an Assistant Master at Lancaster Grammar School, but he was about
 to take up an appointment on the staff of Fareham School, Hampshire.
Missing after an engagement near La Bassee on 20th October 1914 Walter’s death was not reported by
the Manchester Guardian until 21st December 1916 when he was officially presumed to have been killed
or died.  (Another University man, George Dixon, also went missing on the same day from the same battalion.)
Walter has no known grave.
Commemorated on:
University of Manchester War Memorial, Main Quadrangle.
St. George’s Road Congregational Church and Mission War Memorial, Bolton.
Bolton Municipal Secondary School Memorial, located at Bolton St Catherine’s Academy.

Acknowledgements/Sources:
The Manchester Guardian, 21st December 1916.
Tameside Local Studies and Archive Centre, ref: MR2/25/18.
The Serpent, Roll of Honour Supplement to Vol II, 1917-18, University of Manchester Archive.
WO 95/1564/2, 2nd Manchester Regiment War Diary, The National Archives.


Neil
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 07:02:08 PM by timberman »

timberman

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2017, 06:59:34 PM »
The following information can be found on this web site

http://www.ww1.manchester.ac.uk/

George Dixon
Lieutenant, 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment.
Killed in action on Tuesday 20th October 1914 at
Les Trois Maisons, near La Bassee, age 26.
Remembered on Le Touret Memorial, France, Panels 34 and 35.
Former student of Mechanical Engineering.
 
George Dixon was born in 1888 at Sale, son of the late Isaiah and Annie S. Dixon
of ‘Leeward’, Sibson Road, Sale, Cheshire. He was educated at Manchester Central
School, and, as a 21 year-old, in 1909 entered Manchester University to study Mechanical
Engineering. He was a junior Draughtsman to Professor J. T. Nicholson in the Mechanical
 Engineering Department (Faculty of Technology), and held a commission in the Special
Reserve of Officers of Manchester University Officer Training Corp of which he was a
member from April 1908 to May 1912. He had worked with Messrs. Churchill and Co,
Manchester and Messrs. Hans Renold Ltd. He was a prominent rugby player and played
for Sale Rugby Football Club and Cheshire.
The 2nd Manchester Regiment War Diary records that on the 19th October the battalion
reached Les Trois Maisons. At 9am the next day the enemy advanced along the battalion’s
front and left flank, heavy fighting ensued comprising heavy fire action. Two platoons of “A”
Company, led by Dixon and a Captain, made “gallant bayonet charges”. The fighting continued
 until dusk when the battalion retired to it’s support trenches covering Lorges. Dixon was
noted as missing, (as was another University man, Walter Balshaw). George was Mentioned in
Despatches and has no known grave.
Commemorated on:
University of Manchester War Memorial, Main Quadrangle.
Manchester Municipal College of Technology Memorial in the Sackville Building, University of Manchester.

Acknowledgements/Sources:
Researched by Neil Shuttleworth, Prof. H.C.A. Hankins and Pen Richardson.
WO 95/1564/2, 2nd Manchester Regiment War Diary, The National Archives.
The Manchester University Magazine, Volume XI No.10 June 24th, 1915, University of Manchester Archive.

Neil
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 07:03:08 PM by timberman »

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2017, 11:01:13 PM »
Although Second Lieutenant  H W PRICE was wounded on the
20th October 1914 he would die later in the war.

His entry in the CWGC site.

PRICE, H W
Rank:
Second Lieutenant
Date of Death:
04/07/1916
Regiment/Service:
Manchester Regiment
4th Bn. attd. 2nd Bn.
Grave Reference:
F. 65.
Cemetery:
AVELUY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSIOn

Neil
Henry Wall Price worked at CWS Architects Dept. He was a member of 4th Special Reserve Bttn, with his father who died in 1919 with Rank as Major
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2017, 12:23:12 PM »
Timberman & Charlie,

                                  Captain Arthur George Tillard

May I make some observations relating to this officer which have emerged from your excellent research?

Firstly, I refer to Reply No. 15 in which Timberman refers to a commemorative plaque in St.Mary's church in Denham, Buckinghamshire, where Tillard's wife resided.  I assume the "unnamed mother" will be Mrs Emily Katherine Tillard (nee Close-Brooks).   Reference is made on this plaque to the sad death of Tillard's son - David George Tillard - who died in 1929 in Marlborough.  I wonder whether or not David Tillard was a pupil at Marlborough College at that time - one of England's top public schools?

Secondly, I refer to Reply No.13 and in particular, to the newspaper cutting in which reference is made to Mrs Tillard's brother, which I suggested would be Arthur Brooks Close-Brooks', who died on active service with the Manchesters and  is buried in Amara War Cemetery.   I wonder if I am correct in that assumption?

Thirdly, I turn to Reply No. 16 and Charlie's helpful contribution, where it seems, in addition to enquiries by Mrs Tillard, there were enquiries by a Miss Tillard of St.Ives, Hunts. (the Captain's sister?) and it would appear from persons domiciled in Switzerland, too.  Is that interpretation correct, Charlie?

Finally, I note that Captain Tillard's name is, like that of 2nd Lt. R.F.Walker,recorded on the Tablet relating to the Manchester Regt. in the Royal Military College's Memorial Chapel at Sandhurst.   PhilipG.,

Offline charlie

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2017, 01:37:23 PM »
Philip,
You are correct. Enquiries were made by the following:
Mrs Tillard
Mrs Cocke
Mrs Venning
Miss Tillard - Hemingford Grey
Mlle Laure de Wild, resident in Münchenbuchsee, Canton Bern
Mme Dunant of Geneve.

If my very poor understanding of the French language is correct, it was thought he may have been a PoW in Darmstadt. There is also a reference to Amsterdam. Perhaps someone who understands French could be more specific.

Unfortunately none of the documents relating to the enquiries have survived.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2017, 02:19:46 PM »
Charlie,

Thank you.  PhilipG.

timberman

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2017, 05:12:26 PM »
A break down of soldiers in the 2nd Bn from the 17th of Oct 1914
and the 31st of Oct 1914.

The figures are based on the soldiers that the 14th Infantry Brigade
could call on to go into the trenches.

17th October 1914,
 
20 Officers
869 Other ranks

21st October 1914,

12 Officers
796 Other ranks

By the 31st of October 1914

9 Officers
480 Other ranks

Neil

Offline mack

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2017, 05:53:18 PM »

quote]The following information can be found on this web site

http://www.ww1.manchester.ac.uk/

Walter Balshaw2nd Lieutenant, 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment.
Killed in action on Tuesday 20th October 1914 near La Bassee, age 24.
Remembered on Le Touret Memorial, France, Panels 34 and 35.
Former student of Science.
 

Born in 1890 at Bolton to Walter Balshaw, Solicitor, and E.A. Balshaw of 571 Chorley Old Road, Bolton.
Walter attended Bolton Municipal Secondary School where he was both cricket and football captain.
In the years 1906-9 he acted as Chief Prefect. He entered the University of Manchester in 1910 to
study science and continued to play cricket gaining the “Christie” bat for bowling and his colours in 1913.
As a member of the Officer Training Corps from October 1910 to July 1913 he obtained the proficiency
certificates “A” and “B” and was awarded a commission in 1913 as a Second Lieutenant in the Special
Reserve of Officers, Manchester Regiment.
At the outbreak of war Walter was an Assistant Master at Lancaster Grammar School, but he was about
 to take up an appointment on the staff of Fareham School, Hampshire.
Missing after an engagement near La Bassee on 20th October 1914 Walter’s death was not reported by
the Manchester Guardian until 21st December 1916 when he was officially presumed to have been killed
or died.  (Another University man, George Dixon, also went missing on the same day from the same battalion.)
Walter has no known grave.
Commemorated on:
University of Manchester War Memorial, Main Quadrangle.
St. George’s Road Congregational Church and Mission War Memorial, Bolton.
Bolton Municipal Secondary School Memorial, located at Bolton St Catherine’s Academy.

Acknowledgements/Sources:
The Manchester Guardian, 21st December 1916.
Tameside Local Studies and Archive Centre, ref: MR2/25/18.
The Serpent, Roll of Honour Supplement to Vol II, 1917-18, University of Manchester Archive.
WO 95/1564/2, 2nd Manchester Regiment War Diary, The National Archives.


Neil[/quote]

his father wrote to as many of his men as possible to try and find out what happened to him.

mack
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 06:18:46 PM by timberman »

Offline charlie

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2017, 06:49:43 PM »
In the clipping it  say's his wife received two or three letters from
Captain E Von Selasinky ADC of the 25th Brigade of infantry Prussian
Army.

Neil 

Hauptmann Eberhard Karl Gustav Alfred Hermann von Selasen-Selasinsky was, as to be expected, a pre war soldier. Post war, as a retired Major, he was involved in a minor way in returning Crown Prince Wilhelm (the Kaiser's son) to Germany after he had spent 5 years in exile in Holland. He was recalled for the next war and ended up as a Lt. Col. in the Luftwaffe. He lived to the age of 95 and died in 1974.

Perhaps more relevant to the Regiment is that he was, as stated in the newspaper cutting, an ADC in the 25th Infantry Brigade when he wrote the letters. He was in fact an officer in IR158, which was a component of 25 Inf Bde, and was a Company Commander at the start of the war. Manchester Hill in 1918 was thus not the first time the Regiment had faced IR158.

Charlie

timberman

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2017, 06:55:15 PM »
Thank you Charlie

It all helps to build a bigger picture on the history of the 2nd Bn.

Neil