Author Topic: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.  (Read 7260 times)

timberman

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Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« on: October 20, 2016, 07:27:15 PM »
Please note, I had already covered this topic last October so have now merged the two topics
and removed the posts that duplicate each other.


Looking through my files for information on 287 Pte Jack Bass  2nd Bn Manchester's
for Philips topic I found the following!

In the 2nd Bn war diaries it say's the following for the 20th Oct 1914

Casualties

Officers
Wounded, 2nd Lt R Walker, H Price, H Walker
Missing, Captain Arthur George Tillard, 2nd Lt W Balshaw, G Dixon
Killed 6 NCO's and men
Wounded 112 NCO's and men
Missing 69 NCO's and men

So looked for the 6 soldiers killed!!!!!!
A bit of a surprise was in store, this is the list.

GUARDS CEMETERY, WINDY CORNER, CUINCHY, Pas de Calais, France


SHORT, Private, A, 8606, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Grave Ref.
IV. F. 26.

TIERNEY, Private, S, 9176, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Grave
Ref. IV. F. 12.

WALKER, Second Lieutenant, REGINALD FYDELL, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment.
Died of wounds 21 October 1914. Age 20. Son of David and Martha Elizabeth Walker,
late of Kirkby Fleetham Vicarage, Bedale, Yorks. Educated at Shrewsbury School,
1908-13, Head of House, School Prefect, Choregus School football team. R.M.C.
Sandhurst, 1913-14. Born at Grinton Vicarage, Richmond, Yorks. Grave Ref. VII. F. 39.

LE TOURET MEMORIAL, Pas de Calais, France

APTHORPE, Private, EDWARD, 2666, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35
.
BALSHAW, Second Lieutenant, WALTER, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 24. Son of Florence E. A. Balshaw, of 571, Chorley Old Rd., Bolton, and the
late Walter Balshaw (Solicitor). Panels 34 and 35.

BASS, Private, JACK, 287, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels 34
and 35.

BATTLES, Corporal, DOMINICK, 6493, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

BEECH, Private, JAMES, 229, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

BURNS, Private, JOHN HENRY, 8685, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

BUTTERWORTH, Private, REUBEN, 6006, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

CAIN, Private, THOMAS, 5752, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

CASSIDY, Private, DAVID, 9912, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
48. Husband of Jane Rowlands (formerly Cassidy), of Bromebyd, Llannon, Llanelly,
Carmarthenshire. Panels 34 and 35.

COFFEY, Private, JEREMIAH, 7934, "A" Coy. 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Age 30. Son of Arm Coffey, of 58, Albion St., Salford, Manchester, and
the late Jeremiah Coffey. Panels 34 and 35.

COOKE, Private, WALTER, 8760, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 32. Husband of Emily Grace (formerly Cooke), of 6, Mount Place Salford,
Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

COWLEY, Private, HENRY, 9904, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.
26 hethorn st,newton heath

DALBY, Private, JOHN, 9073, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

DALEY, Private, JAMES, 511, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

DENNIS, Private, JOSEPH, 533, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

DIXON, Lieutenant, GEORGE, Mentioned in Despatches, 2nd Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age 26. Son of Annie S. Dixon, of "Leeward", Sibson Rd.,
Sale, Manchester, and the late Isaiah Dixon. Gazetted 2nd Lt. 18th May, 1912, to Special
Reserve. Panels 34 and 35.

DOLAN, Private, JOHN, 8638, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.
Dunmore,galway

DOYLE, Private, ALEXANDER, 9342, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.
5 chatham st,widnes

DRINKWATER, Private, EDWARD NAYLOR, 9092, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment.
20 October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

DUNNE, Private, THOMAS, 527, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
29. Son of Mrs. Ann Dunne. Panels 34 and 35.

FARAM, Private, CHARLES, 8703, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

FITTON, Private, WILLIAM HENRY, 9814, 2nd Bn, Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.
12 great newton st newton heath

GAZZARD, Private, WILLIAM, 2453, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

GILL, Lance Corporal, WILLIAM, 189, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 26. Husband of Elizabeth Annie Gill, of 198, Claremont Rd., Moss Side,
Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

GRAY, Private, PETER, 284, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

GRUNDY, Private, ROBERT, 9636, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 38. Son of Francis and Margaret Grundy. Panels 34 and 35.
samfield crescent,st.helens

HANNON, Private, JOHN, 8927, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

HENNESSEY, Private, THOMAS, 9662, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.
68 ashton rd,droylesden

HOLDSWORTH, Private, THOMAS, 8206, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

HOLLAND, Private, DANIEL, 8850, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

MAHERS, Private, WILLIAM, 8577, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 32. Son of James and Kathleen Mahers, of 54, Castle St., Coventry; husband of
Mary Griffiths (formerly Mahers), of 30 Court, 3 House, Spon St., Coventry. Panels 34
and 35.

MANSFIELD, Private, JAMES, 2374, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

McCARTHY, Private, JOHN CHARLES, 8867, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Age 30. Son of John and Amelia McCarthy, of 96, Salisbury St.,
Liverpool; husband of Frances Bolger (formerly McCarthy), of 4, Manfield St., Erskine
St., Liverpool. Panels 34 and 35.

McGARREY, Lance Corporal, EDWARD, 150, "C" Coy. 2nd Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age 25. Son of Joseph and the late Bridget McGarrey, of 19,
Sandford St., Salford, Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

McKENZIE, Private, ALEXANDER, 2536, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

McKEOWN, Private, JAMES, 9279, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 27. Son of Mrs. Mary McKeown; husband of Rosalina McKeown, of 27 Chapman
St., Oldham. Panels 34 and 35.

McMANUS, Private, JOHN, 9736, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 31. Husband of Agnes Moorhead (formerly McManus), of 29, Chilworth St.,
Rusholme, Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

McQUADE, Private, JAMES, 2473, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 22. Son of Mrs. Ada McQuade, of 12, Kelly St., Kentish Town, London. Panels 34
and 35.

METCALFE, Private, ALBERT EDWARD, 76, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

MOIR, Private, JOHN, 375, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age 37.
Son of Mrs. B. Chapman, of Gariochsford Cottage, Rothie Norman, Aberdeenshire.
Panels 34 and 35.

MORAN, Private, JAMES, 8173, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
33. Son of the late Bernard and Mary Ann Moran; husband of Mary Ann Singleton
(formerly Moran), of 15, Higson St., Bolton. Panels 34 and 35.

MORRIS, Lance Corporal, JAMES ARTHUR, 8471, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.
47 wellington st,bradford manchester

MUNROE, Private, WILLIAM JOHN, 9524, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

NUTTALL, Private, ELLIS, 74, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

O'BRIEN, Private, ALFRED, 8980, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 32. Son of Mrs. Mary O'Brien. Panels 34 and 35.

O'DONNELL, Private, WILLIAM JAMES, 9210, 1st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
December 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

OWEN, Private, EDMOND, 8552, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
32. Husband of Elizabeth Ann Owen, of 11, Debenham Avenue, Briscoe Lane, Newton
Heath, Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

PEARSON, Private, GEORGE, 8772, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

POCOCK, Private, EDWARD, 8826, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

RATCLIFFE, Private, JAMES, 733, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

RINGER, Private, WILLIAM, 8074, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

SHAWCROSS, Private, ALBERT, 2423, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 20. Son of Jack and Hannah Shawcross, of 17, Ross St., West Gorton,
Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

SMITH, Private, GEORGE, 325, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

SMITH, Private, HAROLD, 8523, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.
22 Stanley st.hulme

STACKHOUSE, Private, JOHN, 9486, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 30. Son of John and Alice Stackhouse; husband of Gertrude Stackhouse, of
 Panels 34 and 35.
166 peel st tranmere

STUBBS, Private, RICHARD, 5516, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

TILLARD, Captain, ARTHUR GEORGE, 3rd Bn. attd. "A" Coy. 2nd Bn., Manchester
Regiment. Killed in action at Les Trois Maisons 20 October 1914. Age 39. Son of the
Rev. James Tillard; husband of Emily Katherine Tillard (nee Close-Brooks), of Maltmas
Green, Denham, Bucks. Served in the South African Campaign. Panels 34 and 35.

WALKER, Private, HERBERT, 921, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 27. Son of the late Walter and Elizabeth Walker; husband of Helen Desmond
(formerly Walker), of 1858, 33rd Avenue, South Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
Panels 34 and 35.

WALKER, Private, WILLIAM, 2725, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WALL, Lance Corporal, SAMUEL, 77, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

WALL, Private, SAMUEL, 2615, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WEMYSS, Private, ARTHUR, 308, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WILLIAMS, Private, CHARLES, 8998, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 32. Husband of Annie de Cock (formerly Williams), of 10, Duke St.,
Blaenavon, Monmouth. Panels 34 and 35.

WINGRAVE, Private, THOMAS, 8583, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

WINSPEAR, Private, HARRY, 8534, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WOOD, Private, JOHN, 8207, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

WRENN, Private, KEROI EDWARD, 347, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.


Foot note

I have included  Second Lieutenant, REGINALD FYDELL WALKER, although not killed on the
20th he died the following day from wounds he received during the fighting on the 20th
 
Private Ellis Nuttall (Manchester Regiment) was killed. His son will be killed in World War II.

There are 69 soldiers of the 2nd Bn Manchester's that died this day, most with no known grave.

Timberman
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 09:26:38 AM by mack »

Offline Pete Th

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Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2016, 08:29:35 PM »
Capt Tillard was posted to the 11th Battalion for a very short time but presumably he was summoned to the front to replace officer casualties in the 2nd.
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

timberman

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Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2016, 09:02:16 PM »
He's listed on the 1914 army list as a Captain in the 3rd
on Retired Pay.
He joined the 2nd Bn in France 16/09/1914.

There was also an Officer Arthur Kenneth Dowell Tillard
with the 1st Bn, but I have not found a family link yet.

Timberman

Offline Pete Th

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Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2016, 09:46:35 PM »
Hi Neil, I took the info from the unpublished 11th Battalion history. I'm away from my laptop tonight but I'll post the entry tomorrow. It definitely referred to Arthur George Tillard.

Regards
Pete
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

timberman

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Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2016, 10:28:11 PM »
Thanks Pete

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2016, 11:35:19 AM »
Timberman,

Congratulations on the calibre of your research.   As regards 2nd Lt. R.F.Walker (DOW 21.10.14) :-

I note that this officer's name is recorded on the Tablet erected in respect of the Manchester Regt. in the Memorial Chapel of the Royal Military College, Sandhurst.  He was gazetted to the Manchesters upon leaving Sandhurst and was mortally wounded during a bayonet charge at Trois Maisons, dying the following day.  PhilipG.

timberman

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Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2016, 08:07:48 PM »
Thank you Philip
The war Diaries are well worth investing in, if anyone
would like to read what their ancestors went through.

They are available to download  for all Battalions.

Timberman 

Offline Pete Th

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Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2016, 09:27:53 AM »
Hi Neil, I took the info from the unpublished 11th Battalion history. I'm away from my laptop tonight but I'll post the entry tomorrow. It definitely referred to Arthur George Tillard.

Neil, I made a mistake. I didn't get the info from the unpublished history, I found it in a book called "The Manchesters" by Campbell, G.L., Captain (1916). Uckfield: The Naval & Military Press.

I can't find my copy of the book but the following in my 11th Bn history is based on info contained within it:

"Other officers who trained the raw recruits during these early days included Captain Arthur George Tillard, Captain Leo Creagh (both veterans of the South Africa War), Captain Irwin and Captain Cruikshank (attached from the Indian Army). They only remained with the battalion for a short time as they were badly needed to replace casualties on the Western Front. Fate was not kind to them; Captain Tillard was killed in action serving with the 2nd Battalion in October 1914 and Captain Creagh was killed two months later, serving with the 1st Battalion in France. A third officer, Captain Cruikshank, was wounded before the year was out."

The book is well worth buying. Campbell was an officer in the Royal Artillery and he published the book in 1916.

Regards
Pete
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

timberman

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Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2017, 02:09:14 PM »
In the war diary for the 20th October 1914.

The entry is, click on the pictures to make them bigger.

Neil

Offline mack

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2017, 10:34:55 PM »
there are 8 unknown manchesters buried in the same row as 8606 Arthur short,all were found in the same spot,[A7.B.3.3]

mack

Offline charlie

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 07:59:23 AM »
Only three of the missing are recorded as a PoW.

6539 Cpl James Bereford
9526 Pte George Budd
9854 Pte John Reddey

Charlie

timberman

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 10:12:25 AM »
Thank you Mack and Charlie for the addition information.

Also in GUARDS CEMETERY, WINDY CORNER, CUINCHY, Pas de Calais, France

TOMLINSON, Private, J, 8888, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 21 October 1914. Grave
Ref. VI. F. 40. was the only soldier from the 2nd Bn to die on the 21st

Sadly
Second Lieutenant, REGINALD FYDELL WALKER, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment.
Died of wounds 21 October 1914. Age 20. Son of David and Martha Elizabeth Walker,
late of Kirkby Fleetham Vicarage, Bedale, Yorks. Educated at Shrewsbury School,
1908-13, Head of House, School Prefect, Choregus School football team. R.M.C.
Sandhurst, 1913-14. Born at Grinton Vicarage, Richmond, Yorks. Grave Ref. VII. F. 39.

This was from wounds received on the 20th.

Neil

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2017, 10:45:01 AM »
The History of the 5th Division, (the 2nd Manchesters were in the 14th Brigade of that Division), draws attention to the fact that in the course of 60 days, the Division had fought at Mons, Le Cateau, on the Marne and on the Aisne.  It goes on.  The Division was subject to attack all day and every day.  Divisional staffs were continuously faced with a crisis, such as a battalion needed urgent assistance or news that a breakthrough had occurred.

It goes on to refer to the operations of the 20th October 1914, when the whole British line on the La Bassee front was attacked.   The History reports that when an enemy penetration of the line occurred on the 21st October, the Manchesters at Trois Maisons came forward and made "a fine bayonet charge" as the German attackers came within 200 yards; a charge in which the battalion lost heavily.  PhilipG.

timberman

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2017, 11:17:20 AM »
Thank you Philip for the additional information.

I found the following from the IWM site with regards to
Captain, ARTHUR GEORGE TILLARD,

Neil
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 11:27:44 AM by timberman »

timberman

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Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2017, 11:36:23 AM »
The photo is from the IWM as well.

If you down load the paper clipping you can read what it say's
better.
In the clipping it  say's his wife received two or three letters from
Captain E Von Selasinky ADC of the 25th Brigade of infantry Prussian
Army. One has a sketch map showing where the Germans buried him.

His son was born in early 1915.

Neil 
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 12:09:02 PM by timberman »