Author Topic: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign  (Read 11120 times)

Offline PhilipG

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2016, 12:23:16 PM »
                                          24th battalion Manchester Regiment

In this study of the Manchesters and the Italian campaign, I have found in the Official History occasional reference to the 24th Manchesters, who during the campaign were acting as Divisional Pioneers to the 7th Division.  I have the names of five casualties of this battalion, all of whom are buried in Giavera British Cemetery Arcade.  They are:-

61602 Pte William McGauchie                27.10.18
15111 Pte Samuel James Smith             27.10.18
55536 Pte Alexander Scott                    27.10.18    Ex RE.
52389 Pte David James Hope                19.  1.18    Age 39

Lieutenant Harold Winfred Henderson    13.11.18    3rd Bn. Attached 24th Bn.  "Officers Died" records him as Died.

The 27th October 1918 is given in the Official History as "The Passage of the Piave" i.e. the beginning of the Vittorio Veneto battle. PhilipG.
     

Offline charlie

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2016, 02:02:39 PM »
According to Cotton Town Comrades Lt Henderson died of influenza and pneumonia.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2016, 04:16:56 PM »
Charlie,

Many thanks.  (I see that apart from getting his middle name wrong, the entry appears to be a bit adrift on some other aspects. If you have time, just do a comparison with the CWGC printout).  Take care,  PhilipG.

Offline PhilipG

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2016, 05:22:09 PM »
4370 Company Sergeant Major Ralph Godfrey Smith : 22nd Bn. Manchester Regiment

This Warrant Officer joined the Manchester Regt. on the 17th October 1894 as a Boy soldier of 15 yrs & 11 months, re-engaging for service at the appropriate times.  In January 1918 he was posted to the 22nd Manchesters in Italy.  He died on the 3rd November 1918 of pneumonia at the age of 40 having served 24 years with the Regiment.  He is buried in Staglieno Cemetery, Genoa.   PhilipG.


Offline charlie

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2016, 08:45:28 PM »
Charlie,

Many thanks.  (I see that apart from getting his middle name wrong, the entry appears to be a bit adrift on some other aspects. If you have time, just do a comparison with the CWGC printout).  Take care,  PhilipG.

Thanks Philip,
I had failed to notice the differences in the information, they differ quite a lot. I wonder where Mitchinson and McInnes obtained their information.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2016, 06:58:48 AM »
4370 CSM Ralph Godfrey Smith : 22nd Bn. Manchester Regt.

Further research indicates that this soldier "Died of Wounds" complicated by the onset of bronchial pneumonia.  PhilipG.

Offline mhargreaves

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2016, 10:34:20 PM »
My ggf was RSM in 22nd.

He was occupied on the 29th of October 1918 and received at Bronze Valour medal for his trouble. I have the Italian certificate too and the medal. The certificate dated 5/agarta 1920. (A relative of mine wrote to the Italian embassy some years back asking what the fancy scroll said.  A colonel in the military attahces office of the Italina embassy in london replied) so his translation says:

"On the 29th October, while he was advancing towards the island on the Piave, with the Battalion Command, owing to the shortage of officers, he was sent take command of men who found themselves behind enemy lines.

He stirred the men with his courageous example by completely disregarding the dangers and guided them towards the barbed wire entanglement which hews hoping to be able to cut.

He partially reached his goal not before silencing several enemy machine guns.

He was a great help in organising the front linear the first place reached"

Piave 29th October 1918


not bad for a Tuesday.
Matthew Hargreaves
My great grandfather RSM John Hargreaves M.C. served with the 22nd Battalion Manchester Regiment

Offline PhilipG

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2016, 07:27:13 AM »

mhargreaves,

Thank you for that interesting contribution.  The award would appear to refer to the battalion's attack on Papadopoli Island.  PhilipG.

Offline mhargreaves

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2016, 12:36:54 PM »
Condensed Itinerary of the 22nd no detail of actions just locations as listed in Batt. diary.
Matthew Hargreaves
My great grandfather RSM John Hargreaves M.C. served with the 22nd Battalion Manchester Regiment

Offline PhilipG

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2016, 04:39:58 PM »
Matthew,

Congratulations on your efforts in extracting the daily locations of the 22nd Manchesters.   Some of the places you name feature in the sketch maps in the Official History of the War and I recognise some of them. They are widespread.  I recognise "Handley Cross" which is near Magnaboschi, at which there is the British Cemetery containing the following names:-


35737 L/Corporal J.H.Holt, 245363 L/Cpl T.Hughes  22nd Mcrs. both kia 13.7.18.
2189 L/Sgt.W.Mooney 22nd Mcrs.kia 8.7.18.
25809 Pte. F.Stanley  22nd Mcrs kia 19.7.18.
22944 Pte. W.Taylor   21st Mcrs kia 3.7.18.


I recognise what you would wish to undertake, but remember that the front line stretched from about 20 miles north east of Venice,through the Asiago Plateau to Lake Garda.  PhilipG.

Offline mhargreaves

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2016, 08:56:29 PM »
Philip,

i 'm condensing just my ggf and hence the 22nd experience so trying to focus of their experience.

i guessed that such english sounding names could not be local and thus would not appear on modern Italian maps.

i would appreciate you post any maps, if possible, and we can condense onto one map.

i have not looked at British library links recently posted
is that your source too?

As ever any thoughts appreciated...

all good

Matthew
xxxx

Matthew Hargreaves
My great grandfather RSM John Hargreaves M.C. served with the 22nd Battalion Manchester Regiment

Offline PhilipG

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2016, 11:53:03 AM »
Matthew,
I write to say that I have given a lot of thought to the enterprise you are contemplating, i.e producing a map which will display the travels of your relative whilst serving with the 22nd Mcrs. over the Asiago Plateau and beyond.  The only map I have is a road atlas with a scale of 1:750,000 and whilst it locates Vittorio Veneto and Asiago, it does not mark the positions you would wish to find.   May I suggest you approach a map stockist and choose a map which covers the area of the battlefield, for example, Venice, Vittorio Veneto, Asiago, Lake Garda, Vicenza & Padua?

Incidentally, you will need to consider that in November 1917 the battalion entrained at Anvin and detrained at Legnago, having passed through Marseilles, the Riviera and Genoa.

I'm sorry that I cannot be more helpful, but it is a worthwhile task I feel sure you would want to attempt. Regards, PhilipG.

Offline mhargreaves

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2016, 11:29:16 PM »
i was using google maps.

but it lacks the detail, and the historic names may be missing plus the trench names are missing.

i was looking of the itiniery info to condense on to one map.

Thank you for the entrained* info.

my new word of the month, i may win the international scrabble competition yet.

All good

Matthew
Matthew Hargreaves
My great grandfather RSM John Hargreaves M.C. served with the 22nd Battalion Manchester Regiment

Offline themonsstar

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2016, 10:36:33 AM »
I will see if I can get to my copies of the Official History of the War (Italy) and some other books I have from the time.

Roy

Offline themonsstar

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Re: The Manchester Regiment & The Italian Campaign
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2016, 12:56:04 PM »
I've found three books in my collection on the war in Italy:

The Defeat of Austria "As Seen by the 7th Division".

Official History of the war "Military Operations Italy 1915-1919".

The War in Italy looks like it was published by the Italian General Headquarters Photographic Department June MCMXVI (1916)
Volume 1. On the high Mountains. June 1916
Vol 2. The Carso. July 1916
Vol 3. The Battle Between the Brenta and the Adige. Aug 1916
Vol 4. The Battle of Gorizia. Sept 1916
Vol 5. On The Upper Isonzo. Oct 1916
Vol 6. The Aeronautics. Nov 1916
Vol 7.The Albania. Jan 1917
Vol 8.The Carnia.Feb 1917
Vol 9. Arms & Ammunitions.April 1917

If I can help with a look up let me no.