Author Topic: manchester regiment 12th battalion  (Read 10534 times)

Offline charlie

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2016, 01:03:44 PM »
Thanks Philip, it was your mention of a sketch map that got me mobile. Are you able to give a grid reference for the site of the Battalion's memorial?

Charlie

Offline jane

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2016, 03:16:01 PM »
I believe his body was never recovered

Offline jane

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2016, 03:43:53 PM »
here are details of his older brother also killed was in Manchester regiment 24th battalion then was transferred to 171st company labour corps would be grateful for any more details
FRED

Last name
GASKELL

Service number
396812

Rank
PRIVATE

Regiment
Labour Corps

Battalion
-

Birth place
DUKINFIELD, CHES.

Residence
STOCKPORT, CHES.

Enlistment place
NEWCASTLE-UNDER-LYME, STAFFS

Death year
1917

Death day
16

Death month
9

Cause of death
Killed in action

Death place
France & Flanders

Theatre of war
Western European Theatre

Supplementary Notes
FORMERLY 2871, MANCHESTER REGT.



Offline PhilipG

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2016, 05:09:46 PM »
Charlie,

Taking the easy way out, the 12th Manchesters' Memorial is in the cemetery located on the trench map at 17c or "bottom left corner of square 17, near Acid Drop Copse."    PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2016, 08:58:30 PM »
Charlie,

Taking the easy way out, the 12th Manchesters' Memorial is in the cemetery located on the trench map at 17c or "bottom left corner of square 17, near Acid Drop Copse."    PhilipG.

Thanks Philip, I had completely overseen the word Cemetery under Acid Drop Copse.

Charlie

Offline charlie

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2016, 09:17:44 PM »
Fred Gaskell is commemorated as 2871 Fred Gaskill Manchester Regt by the CWGC. His entry seems a bit mixed up as he is listed as 2871 171 Labour Coy on the Graves Registration Report.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty-details.aspx?cid=142374&name=GASKILL,%20FRED

I do not think 2871 is a 24th Bn number, it would seem to me that he had served in another Manchesters Bn as well.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2016, 10:26:16 AM »
Jane,

Like Charlie, I made reference to the CWGC records and, like Charlie, came up with the name of 2871 Pte Fred GasKILL, age 34 of the 24th Manchesters and 171 Coy. Labour Corps.

You advise that the soldier to which you refer was an older brother of Pte. Arthur GasKELL, your great grandfather.

May I seek your help please, and ask you to kindly confirm that these two soldiers (named above) were indeed brothers?  Regards, PhilipG.

Offline jane

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2016, 04:26:08 PM »
yes they were brothers sons of thomas gaskill and ellen hanson  also another brother William born 1877 he was in royal marines

Offline jane

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2016, 05:33:45 PM »
GASKELL William Stockport First Stockport HANSON
GASKELL Samuel Dukinfield Tameside HANSON
GASKELL Elizabeth Dukinfield Tameside HANSON
 GASKELL Fred Dukinfield Tameside HANSON
GASKELL Arthur Heaton Norris Stockport HANSON
GASKILL Jane Ellen Stockport First Stockport HANSON





I think this was fred as well as he isn't on the 1901 census



First name(s)
FRED

Last name
GASKILL

Birth year
1883

Birth parish
ST MARKS

Birth town
DUCKING FIELD

Birth county
LANCASHIRE

Birth country
ENGLAND

Service number
8173

Rank
-

Regiment
-

Document Type
Attestation

Attestation year
1900

Attestation Day
16

Attestation Month
5

Attestation age years
17

Attestation age months
11

Attestation Corps
MILITIA

Attestation service number
8173

Series
WO96 militia service records 1806-1915

Print transcription View image







 




































 





Offline PhilipG

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2016, 08:40:13 PM »
Jane,

Thank you.   PhilipG.

Offline mack

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2016, 07:55:08 PM »
the reason why theres some confusion to which number fred had when he was killed is this,he was transferred to the 171st labour coy on 15th sept 1917 and killed the following day,his new labour corps number wouldn't have reached him so he would have had his Manchester number on his grave marker.he enlisted on 28th august 1914

mack

Offline charlie

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2016, 09:01:01 PM »
As he enlisted on 28th Aug 1914, he definitely served with another Manchesters Battalion before serving with the 24th. The original 24th Bn Comrades were numbered between 14001 and 15520.

Charlie

Offline mack

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2016, 10:05:11 PM »
hiya Charlie.
he joined the 3rd battalion on 28th august then went to 2nd battalion,he went overseas and was posted to 19th manchesters before being posted to the 24th battalion.

mack

timberman

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2016, 11:20:35 PM »
The following information is from.
More than a name web site.
just click on the link.

http://www.stockport1914-1918.co.uk/soldier.php?name_id=945


Firstly Fred is listed on the 11th Battalion medal roll for the 1914-15 star.

Fred (Fred Gaskill) GASKELL
Rank:   Private
Number:   396812
Unit:   171st Company LABOUR CORPS (MANCHESTER on mem)
Date of Death:   16 September 1917
Age:   34 (approximately)
Cemetery:   Vlamertinghe New Military Cemetery, Ieper, Belgium
Formerly 2871, Manchester Regt.
 
Identification of Fred for this project proved a little more difficult than for most other men. His name is spelt Gaskill by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission as is his name in the medal entitlement records held at the National Archives. However, all local information suggested the spelling was Gaskell. It is likely, in a time when standards of literacy were lower than those today, that different branches of the family spelt the name both ways.
The second difficulty was that his inscription of his name on the Stockport War Memorial is amongst those who served with the Manchester Regiment. This was Fred's original unit although he was definitely with the Labour Corps when he died.
The family history website, CheshireBMD records that Thomas Gaskill (sic) married Ellen Hanson at Christ Church, Heaton Norris in the early 1870s. It is not known how many children they had together, although it is known that Fred had a brother called Arthur. Arthur Gaskell (sic) was killed in action on 7 July 1916 whilst serving with the Manchester Regiment. Fred was born in Dukinfield.
In the latter months of 1903, Fred married Emma Gardiner at St Mary's Church, Stockport. She must have been pregnant at the time as their daughter, Lucy, is recorded as having been born the same year, her birth being registered in the December quarter
Nothing else is known of Fred's life until he enlisted into the army at Newcastle under Lyne. It is not known why he enlisted in the town, although it is possible that he had moved there for work. He originally joined the Manchester Regiment and was allocated 2871 as his service number. This number is consistent with him serving with one of the Regiment's Territorial Battalions. This service may have been quite brief as it is known he was later serving with the 24th Battalion. This unit was a Pioneer Battalion - comprising trained soldiers but ones whose primary responsibilities were in the construction of strongpoints and trench defences.
At some later point, he was transferred to the Labour Corps. The Corps was formed at the beginning of 1917 mainly of men no longer deemed fit enough for the rigours of fighting in the front line trenches, but who could still perform vital manual work in the rear areas. They would undertake such tasks as road building, grave digging, unloading ships, etc. These tasks would often be carried out fairly close to the front line and, certainly, within range of the enemy artillery and casualties were not uncommon.
There are now no records of the daily activities of Labour Corps units but it is known that in the weeks prior to his death, Fred and his comrades spent most of their time burying the dead. These would be casualties from the Third Battle of Ypres (Passchendaele) which had started on 31 July. Fred was killed in action but, of course, there are no details of what happened.

Arthur GASKELL
Rank:   Private
Number:   4086
Unit:   12th Battalion MANCHESTER REGIMENT
Date of Death:   7 July 1916
Age:   24
Cemetery:   Thiepval Memorial, Somme, France
 
Arthur had been born in Stockport and is thought to have lived all his life in the town until he enlisted into the army. In 1905, he married Maria Finnegan in a civil ceremony registered in the town and they would have two children together - Arthur in 1907 and William in 1909. They lived at 15 Hart Street, Stockport. Arthur worked for John Harrison at his brickmaking works on Station Road, Reddish.
The soldiers for the 12th Battalion were recruited at Ashton under Lyne from early September 1914 and Arthur's service number indicates he was amongst the first to join up. He will have gone overseas with the Battalion in July 1915.
The Battle of the Somme had opened on 1 July and many Manchester battalions had their baptism of fire that day. The 12th Battalion was held in reserve during the first week but, on the 7th, they would also go into action.
There had been successes around the village of Mametz on 1 July and a German stronghold known as the Quadrilateral had been subsequently captured. The next objective was a trench known as Quadrilateral Support. This ran between Mametz Wood and the nearby village of Contalmaison.
There seems to have been a chaotic attempt to capture the position during the night of the 6/7th but this had failed. A renewed attempt by the 12th Battalion was ordered for 8am. In the 1920s, Major Thompson described the attack for the Battalion's History (recently republished by the Regimental Archives):
"The route to the assembly point was under constant shell fire and we lost some men but eventually the Battalion formed up in good order. At 8.00am our barrage ceased, "D" and "B" Companies moved forward, followed by "C" Company. "A" Company was held back until the others got well forward. The steadiness of the men was wonderful and they went over in as good a line as if on parade, although as soon as the advance started, they were subjected to very heavy shelling and machine gun fire. As our barrage had ceased, they had no shelter whatsoever and had a distance of 700 yards to cross. As soon as the first three Companies showed themselves on the ridge overlooking the trench, they were met by a withering fire and were mown down in great numbers. The same fate awaited "A" Company. In a few seconds, hardly any of us were on our feet. The casualties were very numerous."
200 men were dead, including Arthur, Harry Hill and Bernard King. His body was never recovered and identified.
Twelve months would pass and then further bad news arrived for the Gaskell family when it was learnt that Arthur's older brother, Fred, had also been killed.

Timberman

« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 11:23:00 PM by timberman »

Offline Jennihirst

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Re: manchester regiment 12th battalion
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2016, 04:55:31 PM »
Thanks for all this great information.
My great grand father is named on the Thievpal memorial next the soldier discussed here.
As seen in the photograph on this thread.
Leonard Samuel Dodd, LS Dodd.
He also died on the 7th July 1916.
I will try and get as near to his last known position next week on the 100 year anniversary of his death after visiting Thievpal for a commeration service on the 6th.
Would you suggest were best that would be?
I will also visit the 12th's memorial and the 38th too...

I have managed to find one photo of him from his obituary.
I wonder if there is any more information or photo graphs of LS Dodd that you are aware of.

Thanks

Regiment number - 11381