Author Topic: brothers last vigil  (Read 14481 times)

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,604
brothers last vigil
« on: September 08, 2015, 01:31:10 PM »
pte 2106 Thomas hunt.1/5th manchesters

a letter to mrs heaton.1915

dear mrs heaton.
its my sad duty to tell you that your husband pte 2341 john heaton was killed on 7th august,its was during our big attack,i didn't see john killed,i came across him lying dead on the battlefield,his brother pte 2372 Charlie heaton was sat beside him looking down at him,it was a sad sight,it was even more so when I realised that Charlie was also dead,sat as if watching over john,we buried the boys the following day in the same grave,the chaplain reverend r.w welbon conducted the service,i placed a photo of you and baby on his grave

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,351
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2018, 05:01:24 PM »
The deaths of both these brothers buried in Twelve Tree Copse Cemetery and mentioned above in this sad story, so well researched by Mack, are recorded in "Soldiers Died" as follows:-

2341 Pte J. Heaton   died 7.8.15      l/5th Manchesters
2372 Pte C. Heaton  died 7.8.15     1/5th Manchesters

However, the CWGC have these soldiers recorded as follows:-

2341 Pte J.Heaton  died 6.7.15    Age 27
2372 Pte C.Heaton died 6.8.15    Age 27

I wonder, please, if someone would kindly check that I have these facts right.      PhilipG.

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,143
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2018, 05:41:52 PM »
Philip,
I think there is a transcription error on the CWGC site. Soldiers effects records the deaths of John Heaton as being on 7.8.1915 and Charlie Heaton as 6/7.8.1915. I think that explains the discrepency

Charlie

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,604
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2018, 05:21:50 AM »
hiya guys.
I have rechecked pte hunts letter,both brothers were killed on 6th august,they were killed within minutes of each other.

theres a bit more to this story,their only surviving brother Harold was also in the 5th battalion[pte 2812]he later transferred to the RFA,harold died on 22nd april 1919,mr heaton lost all his sons.

mack

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,351
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2018, 10:30:24 AM »
Charlie & Mack,

I thank you for your comments in respect of this intriguing research.     I spoke to the Commission this morning and they confirm that their records in respect of these two men are as stated in Reply No. 1.   
They further advised that Pte J.Heaton is buried in the cemetery in Plot 1, Row B, Grave 15.   They went on to confirm that Pte C.Heaton is buried in Plot 1, Row B, Grave 14.

It would seem that upon re-burial the soldiers' remains were separately buried.   PhilipG.

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,143
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2018, 10:49:20 AM »
Philip, Mack,
The CWGC should look a bit more closely at their own records when answering queries, the GRR records that they both died on 6th August. As I said a transcription error.

At least they are buried in graves next to each other.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,351
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2018, 11:07:08 AM »
Charlie,

2341 Pte John Heaton :1/5th Manchesters.

Thank you for your info. re the GRR in which it indicates the date of this soldier's death as being the 6th August 1915, whereas the CWGC elsewhere give his date of death as the 6th July 1915.   It does seem strange that a figure'8' should be mistaken for a figure'7'.

Over the years, the Commission has explained that they take their instructions from the Ministry of Defence (War Office).   Thus, there is an inference that, for whatever reason, the Commission was given the date 6th July 1915 by the War Office in respect of this soldier.    I am willing to contact the Commission again, but I cannot do so as I need a copy of the GRR page to download and print-off.   It would seem that this facility is unavailable from the present day CWGC website concerning this soldier.     PhilipG.

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,143
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2018, 11:50:41 AM »
Philip,
I’m quite sure it is an oversite on behalf of the CWGC. Attached are the GRR and the entry from Soldiers Effects. I‘ve mailed them to you as well.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,351
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2018, 12:13:44 PM »
Charlie,

Many thanks.  PhilipG.

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,351
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2018, 12:42:47 PM »
Charlie,

I will write to the Commission with appropriate enclosures and await their reply.   PhilipG.

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,351
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2018, 02:08:03 PM »
Charlie,
 I have received a courteous letter from the Commission today re Pte. J.Heaton's date of death.   The matter is now being considered.  It would seem that "if sufficient evidence is available", suitable alterations will be made, including that to the headstone, if applicable.     I am asked to check the Commission's web site in a couple of months.

If it is considered by the Authorities that an alteration to the date of death is not to be made, the Commission will contact me in that connection.    Lastly, I am thanked for again contacting them in this matter.  PhilipG.

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,143
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2018, 03:54:30 PM »
Thank you Philip.

His grave marker on our Flickr site
https://flic.kr/p/h8FiXS

And that of his brother
https://flic.kr/p/h8Fp1W

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,351
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2018, 07:15:16 PM »
I have today been advised by the Commission that the date of death of Pte.J.Heaton has been amended in their records to the 7th August 1915.     Suitable amendment to this soldier's headstone is expected to be undertaken during the next 18 months.  PhilipG.

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,143
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2018, 07:34:23 PM »
Thank you Philip, thats good news.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,351
Re: brothers last vigil
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2018, 07:35:27 PM »
The above advice has a bearing on the date of death of 2372 Pte C.Heaton, whose death in the Commission's records is given as the 6th August 1915.  Perhaps there will be a need to contact the Commission in this matter, too? PhilipG.