Author Topic: Serjeant William Henry Green MM 23rd Manchesters  (Read 2617 times)

Offline Mark Hone

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Serjeant William Henry Green MM 23rd Manchesters
« on: January 26, 2015, 06:48:14 PM »
A friend is researching Serjeant Green on behalf of relatives and asked me about some of the military aspects. He died in April 1918 but was only accepted for commemoration by CWGC in 2009 as part of the 'In From the Cold Project' despite being listed in the Manchesters' volume of 'Soldiers Died...' His name has now been put on an addendum panel at the Tyne Cot Memorial. I wonder if anyone here knows more about him? Interestingly, both his brief obituary in the local press and the Absent Voters list apparently record him as serving with the Royal West Kents, even though there is no mention of any regiment other than the Manchesters on CWGC, 'Soldiers Died...' or his Medal Index Card.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 06:55:41 PM by Mark Hone »

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Serjeant William Henry Green MM 23rd Manchesters
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2015, 07:56:20 PM »
Mark,
The Register of Effects also refers to 23rd Manchesters. It also mentions his wife Ada and 'Benefit Child Ada'.  There's a family tree with Wm Green & Ada Box in Salford.

The 23rd Bttn had been disbanded in Feb 1918 and I wonder if he had been attached to the RWK, but not yet transferred, when he was killed.  

It seems very odd to find a missing commemoration when there is so much data available about his death????

T
ps 2 interesting casualties that may provide a lead
 HADFIELD, JOHN

Rank:
    Private
Service No:
    33054
Date of Death:
    01/04/1918
Regiment/Service:
    Manchester Regiment
 
    23rd Bn. attd. 7th Bn. Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment)
Panel Reference:
    Panel 64 to 67.
Memorial:
    POZIERES MEMORIAL

AND
 BRUNT, ROBERT

Rank:
    Serjeant
Service No:
    28612
Date of Death:
    04/04/1918
Regiment/Service:
    Manchester Regiment
 
    23rd Bn. attd. 7th Bn. Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment)
Panel Reference:
    Panel 64 to 67.
Memorial:
    POZIERES MEMORIAL
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 08:23:01 PM by Tim Bell »
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
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Offline Pete Th

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Re: Serjeant William Henry Green MM 23rd Manchesters
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2015, 12:40:17 PM »
There's more information on the SWARM website:

http://salfordwarmemorials.proboards.com/thread/2266/william-henry-green

Cheers
Pete
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Serjeant William Henry Green MM 23rd Manchesters
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 01:09:43 PM »
7th Bn. Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment) lost 60 men on 24/4/1918.  They were trying to defend Amiens from the German spring offensive near Villers-Bretonneux.  Many casualties have no known grave.
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Offline PhilipG

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Re: Serjeant William Henry Green MM 23rd Manchesters
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 01:51:32 PM »
Bearing in mind that the 23rd Manchesters were disbanded on the 16th February 1918, I looked at the appropriate period in the Regimental History of the 7th Bn. Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment (RWK) and it seems that the battalion was "down to 170 available rifles."  It goes on "just after the battalion was leaving the Salient in February one draft of 89 men arrived.........".   Perhaps this was the draft of which Sergeant Green was a part?   (A further draft of 190 OR's later arrived, but this was composed of men from a recently disbanded RWK battalion).

Sgt. Green's untimely death, according to the CWGC took place on the 24th April 1918, so I again had recourse to 7th RWK's Regimental History on the assumption that when he was killed in action he was fighting with this battalion.   On that day the battalion was in action south of Villers-Bretonneux attacking a position just north of Hangard Wood, an attack in which they suffered heavy casualties.

There is an interesting air of mystery about this whole matter, not made plainer by the ultimate recording of Sgt. Green's name on the Tyne Cot Memorial and not on that of the Pozieres Memorial, whose panels record the names of the two men (ex 23rd Mcrs.) whose military service in April 1918 with the 7th RWK may have been similarly followed by Sgt. Green.  PhilipG.

Offline Mark Hone

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Re: Serjeant William Henry Green MM 23rd Manchesters
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 03:49:22 PM »
Fascinating stuff, chaps. It looks very much as if he was with 7th RWK when he was killed. In these circumstances, as Phillip says, it's odd that he ended up being put on Tyne Cot not Pozieres.

Offline mack

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Re: Serjeant William Henry Green MM 23rd Manchesters
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 04:47:33 PM »
maybe the date of death is wrong,is it possible he was killed on 4th april 1918.

mack ;D

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Serjeant William Henry Green MM 23rd Manchesters
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2015, 11:16:55 AM »
The main consideration is that his name was finally accepted for commemoration, even though the reason for its inclusion on the panels of the Tyne Cot Memorial is not, at this stage, clear.   Perhaps, "administrative  convenience" came into the Commission's thinking?

(It was during this battle that a unique engagement with the enemy took place - the world's first tank versus tank battle, a battle in which the German tank was destroyed.  The British tank involved was appropriately: No. 1 Tank of No. 1 Section, A Company, 1st battalion Tank Corps).
PhilipG.