Author Topic: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour  (Read 10130 times)

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2015, 08:58:07 PM »
Philip,
I'm returning to my musing on Godfrey.  If we recall the men enlisting in the City Battalions were not adopted by the War Office in October 1914, could the usual rules for DCs mean he could have actually have been one of the Pals after all?  I suppose the evidence would arise from any other casualties from men enlisting in the first two months with the Pals, but I can't find any such deaths.  Does this suggest the Pals losses during Heaton Park training were not military deaths?  I realise his despatch rider role wouldn't normally have been Infantry, but there could have been one posted to each Brigade.

Any thoughts?

Tim
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Offline mack

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2015, 09:49:47 PM »
the pals were an official force,you cant raise two brigades of men,without the authorisation from the government,the adoption bit is a canny way for the government to sit back,while the city of Manchester pays,clothes and feeds these men and puts them through their initial training,they adopted them after we footed the bill.

mack ;D

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2015, 07:56:32 PM »
Mack,
Are you aware of any of the Pals being casualties in 1914?
Tim
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Offline mack

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2015, 07:25:23 AM »
I cant remember tim.

I think there were a couple,but not sure if it was 1914,may have been the opening months of 1915

mack ;D

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2015, 10:33:30 AM »
Tim,

I continue to admire your tenacity in researching this man's possible military service.

My impression is that Colles was an accomplished motor-cyclist, who at the commencement of hostilities expressed an intention to join the army - an intention frustrated by his untimely death on 14th October 1914.

Whosoever gave details of his death to the School's magazine of May 1915, said he was a "Despatch Rider", "died through the result of operation" and gave the date of Colles' death as 14.10.14.   In similar rolls in the magazines for May 1916, November 1916, May 1917 and November 1917, no mention of "Despatch Rider" is recorded against Colles' name - just the date of his death.  I would suggest that there was a later recognition that the original obituary notice was incorrect in that regard, i.e that he was not a Despatch Rider in the army?

As previously mentioned, Colles' Certificate of Death is in the usual form for civilian deaths and is not recorded on the special form of Death Certificate for army personnel.  I presently feel that he did not serve in the army.

As a matter of interest, I wonder what prompted you to suggest that Colles was in the "Pals"?  I have had a look at the School's magazine for November1915 and in the list of those in the services, there is a preponderance of men who joined the 6th battalion - 42 listed.
Regards, PhilipG.

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2015, 01:10:22 PM »
Mack and Philip,
Thanks for the responses. I've been researching another WACOS man in Kings Royal Lancs who died 6 weeks after discharge with DAH - aggravated by his service.  I'm waiting for his DC to see if he should have been recognised by CWGC. 

All this raised the outstanding question on why Godfrey is on the Memorial if he didn't serve.  It's a long shot, but if the Pals were not formerly under War Office auspices in 1914, could their casualties be excluded from Military Records - CWGC & SDGW?  This could only apply to the City Battalions because the other recruits were in War Office Battalions. 

With almost 8,000 men at the end of 1914, it seems strange there were no relevant CWGC casualties in that year, when there were quite a few at Home in 1915.  Perhaps City processes were different and men were promptly discharged if they were ill.

I may be flying another kite!

There were numerous WACOS men in the 1/6th, but also many in the City Battalions.  The journal stopped before there were too many losses to report for the latter...
Tim
ps Still keen to find my own copy of the Waconian!
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Offline PhilipG

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2015, 10:02:05 AM »
Tim,

How did you find out that Colles was in the ""Pals, please?  I am keeping a watch for the Waconian magazine. PhilipG.

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2015, 12:16:16 PM »
Philip,

It's just a hypothesis that Godfrey was in a City Battalion as a way of possibly explaining why he may have previously served, but was omitted from Military records.  Unless we see records of former Pals who died in 1914 (if there were any) I will still just be speculating...

Tim
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Offline PhilipG

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2015, 01:05:28 PM »
Tim,

Many thanks for that info. Regards. PhilipG.

Offline mack

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2016, 02:09:13 AM »
there was a photo of 5132 leslie,newlyn Jeffery in the M.E.N in 1916.if you have access to the british newspaper archive search under Jeffrey.

mack ;D

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2016, 07:37:08 AM »
Well spotted.
Thanks
Tim
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