Author Topic: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour  (Read 10131 times)

Offline Tim Bell

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Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« on: September 24, 2014, 07:46:19 PM »
Hi Forum,
Returning to Cheadle Hulme School War Memorial, I wonder if anyone has a military record of this chap?  The school magazine suggests he was a dispatch rider and former architect who died in Chorlton as a result of an operation on 12/10/1914.  I can't find a record of his burial in Manchester.  He died too early for the Pals Roll of Honour and he isn't in the list of employees.  I'll email a helpful lady at RIBA archives, but any tips would be appreciated before I do this.

Cheers

Tim 
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Offline mack

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2014, 09:51:39 AM »
you wont find a burial in Manchester because he was from Cheshire,he died at 24 York place Manchester,but lived at 31 ravenoak park rd,cheadle.

mack ;D

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2014, 10:25:34 AM »
Thanks Mack,

I assume he died under the knife at St Mary's Hospital.  Do you know anything about Military Service, for him to be included on a War Memorial, so early in hostilities?

T
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Offline Pete Th

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2014, 11:02:54 AM »
Hi Tim, I don't know about his military service but many war memorials include men who died during training or through illness whilst at home. The important thing to remember is that they were willing to do their bit.

Cheers
Pete
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2014, 01:02:28 PM »
Tim - Greetings.

The web page for "Cheadle Hulme School War Memorial Roll of Honour" does not record the name of Godfrey Colles, only that of Captain A.G.Colles, R.Dub.Fus. - a relative, perhaps?  However, the same Roll of Honour, this time for 1939-45 War Deaths, does not include the name of my cousin (Flt. Sgt.- Air Gunner), suggesting to me that the whole roll is incomplete.  No doubt you have further info. in that context.  Although you do not say so, I assume that this gentleman enlisted in the Manchester Regiment.   Turning to the web page for the RIBA War Memorial, I could not see his name recorded either on that Memorial or on the Cheadle Hulme War Memorial.   Perhaps, when making contact with the RIBA, they could give you the name of the firm of which he was an associate, on the off-chance, of course, that his name is included in the City Bns. Book.

Considering the brief period between the commencement of hostilities and his untimely death are you happy that he actually was embodied in the Army?   I was particularly interested in your reference to "dispatch rider".   My father-in-law and his brother were both members of the Stockport Motor Club- in effect a motor cycle club - and although he preferred to enlist in the RMLI, his brother was very eagerly received into the RFC as a "dispatch rider".  It could well be that Colles had the same rare motoring hobby, thus qualifying him for selection for dispatch rider duties, particularly the fact, as Mack tells us, Colles lived in neighbouring Cheadle Hulme.

After a not inconsiderable period of research, I regret that the only concrete fact I have come up with is that Colles was born in 1879.  Sorry.  Best regards, PhilipG.

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2014, 01:20:30 PM »
Thanks Pete,

If I find anything further I will report back.

T
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2014, 11:20:26 AM »
Hi Philip,
Sorry I missed your post.  The site you mention has followed the wrong path I think.  Understandable for a casualty who appears to have enlisted within 2 months of his death and never went abroad to qualify for medals.  The School magazine mentioned the detail I provided.  I just wish I could see all of them....
I can't understand why Godfrey isn't recognised by CWGC, but Capt Dreschfeld is http://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=8118.msg53032#msg53032  Is it because his cause of death must have been unrelated to his service, whereas the Capt. may have been injured or sick due to his training?
Tim
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Offline mack

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2014, 07:30:47 AM »
if he was still serving,he qualifies for war grave status,irrespective of his cause of death

mack ;D

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2014, 11:05:34 AM »
Hi Mack,
In the absence of any known Military records for Godfrey, I suppose we can just wonder if the 'occupation' on his medical records specifies Army or his Regiment - rather than Architect.  Is there any way to access this?  This is note from the school archivist:-
Despatch Rider - DoB June 27th 1878 - Died through result of operation - Oct 14th 1914 - May not have left England for the Front before he died, or if he did it was only for a short period of time before he came back and died. 'Died through the result of an operation a few weeks after enlisting.' (May 1915 Mag). After cross-referencing the information given in the Admissions Book with the 1881-1911 censuses and the National Probate Calendar it seems he was an architect and died in Manchester - he may have been brought back to England for the operation and died then, but it seems more likely that he never left. There does not seem to be a record of his military service online and the magazine only mentioned him after he had died, and it never mentioned a regiment or anything, just that he was a despatch rider.  One of the first of the Old Boys to be reported dead in the Magazine, along with Fred Wood.
T
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Offline mack

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2014, 06:13:45 PM »
his death certificate may give you the info

mack ;D

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 08:22:11 PM »
Cathy at RIBA confirms Godfrey was a Licentiate member who was reported having died in the 7th November 1914 Journal.  No mention of Military Service in records that appear otherwise expansive. Before I think about the wrath of Mrs B by spending £9.25 does anyone know how common a Dispatch Rider would have been in 1914?  Would such a job have been enlisted in a Service?
T




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Offline mack

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2014, 06:22:20 AM »
don't know how common despatch riders were, wendi's great uncle,cpl 6694 Arthur,james tyldesley[16th manchesters]was the 90th brigades despatch rider,see page 50 book of honour

mack ;D
ps,the place he died at,24 York place,was the old st marys hospital building
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 08:56:29 AM by Wendi »

Offline Wendi

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2014, 09:14:10 AM »
Did someone mention my name ?  ;D

Wiki mentions that the initial call to arms was over subscribed by 2000 but frustratingly does not say how many http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despatch_rider (I hadn't realised they had to present with their own machines !) I wonder if Roy knows how to find out what the initial intake would have been?

Wendi  :)
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2014, 10:37:39 PM »
Wendi,
Thanks for the link.  It's likley that Godfrey was a serving despatch rider when he went in to hospital and died under the knife.  From experince of other forum members, it is possible/likely/remote for his occupation to be seen on his death certificate?
T
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Offline Wendi

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Re: Godfrey Colles WACOS Roll of Honour
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 08:48:21 AM »
Tim, there will be a profession on his death certificate, what is written there is chosen in discussion between the person registering the death and the registrar.

Wendi
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha