Author Topic: Book: 'Maple Leaves in England' by M.E. Bagshaw - dedicated to the 17th Pals  (Read 5910 times)

GeorgeJ

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Hello, newbie here!  :)

I thought I'd let you know about a book I came across called 'Maple Leaves in England' https://archive.org/details/mapleleavesineng00bagsuoft

The book is not, in general, about the Manchesters, but it is dedicated to the 17th Manchester Pals Battalion.

The author is M. E. Bagshaw who talks of her son, Herbert, who she says joined the 17th at the end of August 1914 - deployed to France "in the early part of November, 1915" - and was killed "exactly three months to the day" afterwards. This would clearly indicate that she was Martha Elizabeth Bagshaw and her son was Private 8432 George Herbert Bagshaw, killed by shell fire on the 28th of January:

http://www.themanchesters.org/Early%20casualties.htm
http://twgpp.org/information.php?id=2858441

The "exactly three months to the day" isn't quite accurate, according to the official date of death, but is fairly close.

The book itself is worth a read if anyone has a spare couple of hours; it's easy going and socially interesting.

Anyway, just thought I'd share this information for the record. It might prove useful to someone. :)

Cheers,
George


Offline Tim Bell

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Hi George,

Thanks for this.

Two others were killed in the German bombardment that day and 6 men were wounded + the OC Capt Ford. I visited Suzanne last October and took pics of the adjoining plots for two these men. https://www.flickr.com/photos/manchester-regiment/sets/72157605320501900/. 8445 Richard Bradshaw is buried in Corbie.

CWGC records show the inscription on George Herbert Bagshawe’s grave was provided by his mother Martha “Many waters cannot quench love.  Neither can the flood  drown it.”  George had been born & resident in Miles Platting and employed as a warehouseman when he enlisted on 3rd September 1914.  He had been hospitilised for 4 days in January 1915 at Heaton Park with tonsillitis.

T
Edit for Burial Locations

« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 08:15:44 AM by Tim Bell »
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GeorgeJ

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Hello Tim,

CWGC records show the inscription on George Herbert Bagshawe’s grave was provided by his mother Martha “Many waters cannot quench love.  Neither can the flood  drown it.”  George had been born & resident in Miles Platting and employed as a warehouseman when he enlisted on 3rd September 1914.  He had been hospitilised for 4 days in January 1915 at Heaton Park with tonsillitis.

Thanks for that. Martha also says that George (Herbert) was injured through drilling in March 1915 and had to undergo a hernia operation to remain in the battalion. Four others were admitted from the same battalion at the same time for the same operation, one of whom died from it.

The CWGC gives Martha's (and her husband George's) address as 16, Clough Walk, Prestwich, Manchester, and also states that her son George was born at Miles Platting. As Martha loaned out her son George's bed to injured Canadian soldiers - the 'Maple Leaves' in the book title - Clough Walk may have been his residence at the outbreak of the War, rather than Miles Platting. I guess details were rather sketchy at that time. Incidentally, Clough Walk now seems to have been demolished due to mining subsidence: http://www.bury.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=2141

Martha, also mentions another son who survived the conflict, although she doesn't give his name or regiment. Perhaps he went on to have a family who might find these details useful. I hope so, as Martha seems a fairly incredible woman who deserves to be remembered!  :)

Offline Tim Bell

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George,

I just spotted that Martha paid 15/2 for the inscription on Herbert's grave.  The cost of a blanket will also have been deducted from his pay.

Three days grieving, a vision of her son telling her to get back to work and she got on with it.  It's a privilege to read her thoughts.

The book spells her name Bagshaw and CWGC specify Bagshawe.  I wonder if that's part of the reason we can't find the second son.  I imagine his family would've known about Martha's book.

T
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GeorgeJ

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The book spells her name Bagshaw and CWGC specify Bagshawe.  I wonder if that's part of the reason we can't find the second son.  I imagine his family would've known about Martha's book.

I've had a look for both spellings, but can't find anything unfortunately. You'd hope that the family would know about the book, of course, but so much gets forgotten these days, you never know!

Offline Tim Bell

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George,

Following your first post - Herbert was actually George Herbert Bagshaw.  I think that was where I was going wrong yesterday.  His Service Record is somewhere...

 Also he will have been killed in Royal Dragons, Vaux or Maricourt - when the 17th were supporting the 18th Bttn.  As there was a separate cemetery at Maricourt, the first two locations were most likely.

The 18th also lost 3 men the same day. The Germans successfully attacked Frise village from the French as a celebration for the Kaiser's birthday.  Frise is very close to Royal Dragons, Eclusier and Vaux. http://www.themanchesters.org/17th%20batt.htm

We don't know which Company Herbert had trained with because he was absent from the Roll of Honour photos having his hernia operation.  The Book of Honour does show a G H Bagshaw employed at Barlow & Jones, 2 Portland Street, Manchester. 

T
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 08:24:30 AM by Tim Bell »
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Offline themonsstar

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Thank you for the link George to the book.

Roy

GeorgeJ

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Tim,

Yes, George was the first name of both father and son, so the son's second name 'Herbert' was presumably used to save confusion. A commonly done thing at the time I would say.

Barlow and Jones had some 300 employees who served in the War according to this link: http://www.stockport1914-1918.co.uk/soldier.php?name_id=1303
(There's interesting info on that site that I'm sure you know already, but might be of use to others.)

As George senior was also a warehouseman, there's a fair chance he worked for the same company. Perhaps Herbert's brother did as well.

(Just for the record, Martha Bagshaw states that her "old home" - presumably where she was born - was Shropshire.)

GeorgeJ

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Thank you for the link George to the book.

Roy

You're most welcome! :)

Offline Tim Bell

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William Thomas was George Herbert's brother.  He is mentioned on Herbert's Service Record.
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GeorgeJ

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William Thomas was George Herbert's brother.  He is mentioned on Herbert's Service Record.

Thanks. Is there any other information given about William Thomas? I can't find anything about him.