Author Topic: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF  (Read 138810 times)

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #375 on: May 27, 2016, 04:48:00 PM »
Thomas Clesham

I don't think he was RFC / RAF, although this suggests he qualified as a Pilot possibly as an attachment.http://ourheroes.southdublinlibraries.ie/node/16826
These are my notes;-
The Thiepval Memorial database suggests evidence that 2nd Lieutenant Clesham “…fell when just as led his men over the parapet and was killed instantly.”  This correlates with Thomas being OC of III Platoon in the Montauban assault as described by Arthur Bell.   â€œThe first casualty I remember was our Platoon officer, we were in artillery formation and he was leading – but I do not think he could have been sniped, unless by some very clever German trickery.  Anyhow, he just go it in the head with one leg off the ground, and must have died that instant.”

The database also says “He was a splendid type of officer and beloved by his comrades. Reported buried in the vicinity of Maricourt” This information would be consistent with a letter to may have been written to Thomas’ family after his death.

He had previously served in South Africa with the Natal Light Horse at the outbreak of hostilities.  His mother Isabella (nee Mckeown) and father, Reverend Timothy Clesham had lived in County Mayo, Ireland.  Rev Clesham has died in 1894.  34 year old Thomas left his Estate to his mother Isabella.  The passenger list for Thomas Clesham’s passage on the Balmoral Castle from Southampton to Cape Town in 1912 identifies him as a dentist.  An earlier voyage from Southampton to Cape Town has also been identified in 1907.  A return journey on the Balmoral Castle on 2nd June 1915 indicates Thomas was an engineer from Transvaal.  The Thiepval Database indicates he Graduated at Trinity College, Dublin and worked in the mining fields of S Africa.  Thomas is included on Portora Great War Memorial in Enniskillen, Portora Royal School, Fermanagh. He is also included on the memorial of the Chemical, Metallurgical and Mining Society of South Africa Great War Memorial.  Thomas had joined the Society in April 1911, employed by Simmer East Limited, as a sampler. 
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Offline PhilipG

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #376 on: May 27, 2016, 06:11:05 PM »
Charlie & Tim Bell,

2nd Lt. T.H. Clesham

Thank you to both of you for the trouble you have taken regarding replying to my contribution re this officer. Much appreciated.   PhilipG.

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #377 on: August 11, 2016, 05:49:06 PM »
                         Lt. Leslie O'Gorman Whitfield : 3rd Bn. Manchester Regt., RFC & RAF

This officer was of Australian nationality and was born in 1892.  His military service commenced with his enlistment in the New South Wales Lancers, followed by service with the 3rd Manchesters in England, and in February 1916 by transfer to the RFC, joining at their base in Reading.  From there he undertook training in April 1916 with No. 12 & No. 11 Kite Balloon Squadrons, being classed in June 1916 as a Probation Balloon Officer.   He is recorded as being in hospital in April and in August 1917 where he was holding the rank of Lieutenant.

The records seen, record him being posted to the BEF in October 1918 and where he was granted permission to wear the coveted Observer badge.  He was demobilised in May 1919.

(What few records we have in connection with his military service, in particular for the period 1914/15, I venture to suggest that there is a possibility that Whitfield, with his service with the NSW Lancers, could have served in Gallipoli, as components of the Lancers volunteered to join the 1st Australian Light Horse Brigade which landed on the Peninsular on the 12th May 1915.  I could go further by way of conjecture, and suggest that his periods in hospital could have been connected with such service during the campaign. At present, of course, there is no proof in any respect of what I am suggesting).
PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #378 on: August 11, 2016, 09:30:10 PM »
Lt Whitfield

Philip
This Officer has quite a long list of stays in hospital:
15.4.1917 7 Stationary Hospital Boulogne diagnosed as suffering from VDG, discharged to 39GH Havre.
7.8.1917 Hazebrook, atrophy muscle left thigh.
8.8.1817 20GH as above and synovitis left knee
10.08.1917 discharged to duty - base details Etaples
28.8.1917 20GH atrophy left leg
3.1.1919 RAF Hosp 37 Appendicitis
8.2.1919 8.2.1919 Central Hospital Hampstead - NYD

The last two entries being in red ink on his casualty card.

Some more information and two good photos of him as an Officer in the Manchesters

http://beyond1914.sydney.edu.au/profile/4327/donald-leslie-o-gorman-whitfeld

Charlie
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 10:13:29 PM by Charlie »

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #379 on: September 01, 2016, 07:45:30 PM »
Charlie,

A belated thank you. PhilipG.

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #380 on: October 27, 2016, 07:49:41 AM »
                           Lieutenant E.M.Besso  :  1/5th Manchester Regt., RFC & RAF

This officer's name is one of some 60 listed on the Manchester Congregations Spanish and Portuguese Jews Roll of Honour for the Great War.   It is understood that getting on for one fifth of enlistments from the community, which would appear to have centred on synagogues in the areas of Cheetham Hill Road and Mauldeth Road, Manchester, served in the Manchester Regiment, including of course, 2nd Lt. Joshua H. Cansino of the 22nd Manchesters who was kia on 2nd June 1916.

I have been unable to trace Lieutenant Besso's service with either the Royal Flying Corps or the Royal Air Force and therefore do not know in which capacity he served in these units.

PhilipG.
The Jewry Roll of Honour says Lt A Besso was 1st Bttn MR attached to the Camel Corps. Here's a photo.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 11:50:32 AM by Tim Bell »
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Offline PhilipG

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #381 on: October 27, 2016, 10:27:48 AM »
Tim Bell,
 Thank you for your interest in this thread concerning Lt. E.M.Besso of the 5th Manchesters and also for the photograph.

However, I note that the photograph is annotated "A.Besso" which suggests that the likeness is not that of Lt. E.M. Besso, but that of 2nd Lt. A.Besso of, as you say, the 1st battalion, possibly  a relative?  What do you think?  Regards, PhilipG.

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #382 on: October 27, 2016, 12:20:02 PM »
Quite right Philip,
I hadn't cross checked the initial! Checking the roll confirms the only Manchester Regiment man listed as Besso is Lt. A Besso.  It appears E. Maurice Besso was missing from the Roll or accounted for in the RAF roll - which I can't now check.  There are quite a few inconsistencies...
Maurice Besso and Abram Besso are shown on the 1911 Census as resident 369 Bury New Road, Broughton. Maurice was an Apprentice at Electrical Engineers.
An Eric Maurice Besso returned from New York on the Queen Mary in June 1939 and may have been the same man shown as 2/Lt on the Army Lists in the E Lancs and Territorial Reserve.
Tim
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Offline PhilipG

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #383 on: March 09, 2017, 08:34:50 AM »
              3121 Pte James Taylor :  Manchester Regt. & RFC

This soldier served with a battalion of the Manchesters in Gallipoli.  Subsequently, he transferred to the Royal Flying Corps taking  the service number of 334630.   I note that at a later date he re-joined the Manchesters, this time taking the Regimental Number 376024.

I have not been able to ascertain in which battalions he served or, indeed, his rank when serving in the RFC.  PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #384 on: March 09, 2017, 09:41:42 AM »
Philip,
According to the medal rolls he served with the 1/10th Bn, I presume 3121 & 376024 are his short and long numbers. He qualified for his 1914-15 Star on 23.10.1915. The Bn received a draft of re-enforcements from the 3/10th Bn in October 1915. The medal went unclaimed but was re-issued in April 1931. I have drawn a complete blank with his RFC service, all I can add is that he is not on the RAF Muster Roll so it would appear he had returned to the Manchesters by then. The only Rank he seems to have had with the RFC is that of Pte, which suggests that he was in a non-technical trade.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #385 on: March 09, 2017, 12:55:30 PM »
Charlie,

Many thanks. PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #386 on: March 10, 2017, 07:41:33 AM »
Philip,
After a bit more digging the evidence points to him being a post war re-enlistment. There are no Airmen with a 334??? Series service number in the RAF Muster Roll, only 44 with a WW1 medal entitlement, all have service in another regiment. The 344??? Series was used for civilians enlisting into the RAF in August 1919.

All the 44 are recorded in the NA MiCs as RFC but the Medal Rolls are all RAF. Perhaps someone with access to "Find my Past" could have a look for his RAF service record.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #387 on: March 10, 2017, 03:35:13 PM »
Charlie,

Thank you for your interest.  As often happens in research, this man's name came up when I was looking for a lead into something quite different.  However, it was yet another name to add to the list of those who felt the call to join the Junior Service, as Mack said some years ago, "it is quite a list".    PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #388 on: July 10, 2017, 09:22:57 AM »
2/Lt Harold Edgar Hinchliffe 2/8th Bn and RAF.

This Officer was on 103 Sqn and was taken PoW on 09.07.1918 at Laventie. He was flying in DH9 D1023 as an Observer. His Casualty Card records "Last seen this side of line flying north on dawn patrol" He was repatriated on 11.01.1919 after being held at Karlsruhe and Stralsund-Dänholm.

Charlie

Surname now corrected
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 07:23:21 AM by charlie »

Offline PhilipG

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Re: Transfers of Manchester Regiment Officers to RFC/RAF
« Reply #389 on: July 10, 2017, 06:14:49 PM »

Charlie,

I have the above named officer recorded as Hinchliffe.    His pilot was 2nd Lt. R.H.Dunn who was also a POW. PhilipG.