Author Topic: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg  (Read 24134 times)

Offline Tim Bell

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Lt Aubrey Harris 21st Battalion
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2014, 07:10:05 AM »
Hi Wendy,
This recently refreshed post http://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=2675.15shows some details I hadn't noted about one of the Merchiston teachers.  Please see JWRH's post #25

HARRIS, Lieutenant, AUBREY, "A" Coy. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 4
September 1916. Age 22. Son of William and Mary Elizabeth Harris, of Oak Bank Villa,
72, Alexandra Rd., Wrexham. B.A. (Hons.) Manchester University. Senior language
master (Merchiston, Edinburgh). Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

Mack's post tells us Lt Harris was Bombing Officer.  A pic can be found with III Platoon http://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=4694.0

Tim


Following one Platoon and everything around them....
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Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2014, 10:49:14 AM »
Wendy,
Please see link pg 212 concerning the visit of Lieut. W. T. Forshaw, V.C.to North Manchester School where he had been a teacher.  This was a prep. School for Manchester Grammar, explains the extensive article in MGS magazine. http://www.worldwar1schoolarchives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ULULA_1915_11.pdf

"Victoria Station approach was lined with the Boy Scouts and O.T.C., while behind them, rank after rank, stood
the boys of the School and detachments from the Prepara- tory Schools"
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
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Offline wendyg

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2014, 11:57:46 AM »
Thanks Tim. I shall add him to my list. What an interesting resource! I have looked at others online and your link gave me inspiration as I have a friend whose father went toMGS and she has no idea about his war service except for a photo in army uniform taken from the back so no insignia!

Thanks again
Wendyg

Offline Mark Hone

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2014, 04:37:08 PM »
Have you got Lt Albert Hendrie, teacher and OTC officer at Bury Grammar School on your database? I have his service record and POW repatriation interview. He became Brigade Trench Mortar battery commander and was captured near Manchester Hill on 21st March 1918. He did not return as a teacher to BGS after the war.

Offline Robert Bonner

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2014, 04:49:36 PM »
Lieut Hendrie.
Wilfrith Elstob of the 16th Bn in a report to his Brigadier concerning the attack on 31 July 1917  wrote: Then went forward to try and discover where our front line actually had got to - on the way met Captain Hendrie of Stokes Mortar Battery and explained my intention of organising an attack up the valley, arranging for him to bring fire to bear on the left to occupy the enemy as soon as he saw party approaching up the valley. Capt Hendrie then went to reconnoitre the position for his guns.
Robert

Online PhilipG

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2014, 11:52:26 AM »
                                   2nd Lieutenant Andrew Morris

This officer was formerly a teacher at Elmfield College in York and was KIA on the 26th August 1918 whilst serving with the 12th Manchesters.   I note that the CWGC have him listed as "4th Bn. attd. 12th (Duke of Lancaster's Own Yeomanry) Bn."   I presume this is a reference to the time in September 1917 when 7 officers and 125 OR's were transferred from the Yeomanry to this Service battalion of the Manchesters.   I again presume that the Yeomanry Regiment was then disbanded?

On the 25th August the battalion was involved in an attack on the Thiepval Ridge, an undertaking which achieved "all that could be desired".    However, the unit on the battalion's right withdrew from High Wood with the inevitable exposure on the Manchesters' flank, resulting in the battalion suffering heavy casualties.

The following day, at 5 a.m., the attack resumed and met with success.  However, casualties continued to be suffered by the battalion and among these was Lieutenant Morris.   He is buried in Pozieres British Cemetery.         PhilipG.

Offline Robert Bonner

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2014, 12:31:26 PM »
On 24 September 1917 the 12th Manchesters absorbed the RHQ & 2 Squadrons DOLY (7 officers & 125 other ranks) now dismounted after serving as the cavalry regiment of 3 Corps. 
The Battalion was retitled 12th (Duke Of Lancaster's Own Yeomanry) Battalion Manchester Regiment.
Robert

Online PhilipG

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2014, 01:18:19 PM »
Robert,

Thank you for that info. Regards, Philip.

Online PhilipG

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2014, 03:58:38 PM »
                No. 2295 Private John Fletcher Redhead:  l/6th Manchester Regiment

This soldier was a pupil of Elmfield College, York and in 1905 was a Scholarship Winner, being awarded the "Hugh Bourne Scholarship" donated by the Primitive Methodist Conference.   After leaving school, he qualified as a teacher and has been traced to the staff of a school in Cardiff.

He was killed in action on the 5th June 1915 in Gallipoli during the Third Battle of Krithia, a battle in which the Official History of the War - Gallipoli - Vol.II, informs us that the "Manchester Territorials", (Brig.Gen. Noel Lee) fought like veterans and that all were in fine fettle.  Private Redhead has no known grave and thus his name is inscribed on the panels of the Helles Memorial.

In the period 4th June to 9th June 1915, the l/6th Manchesters suffered a total of 384 casualties, including Other Rank casualties totalling 61 killed.   It was on the 4th June that General Lee was wounded in the head by enemy fire, evacuated from the Peninsula, but sadly died later in Malta on the 22nd June 1915.   PhilipG.

Online PhilipG

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2014, 02:31:54 PM »
        Second Lieutenant Gilbert Carmichael : 10th Bn. attd. 2/6th Manchester Regiment.

This officer was formerly a teacher at Ashville College in Harrogate, but was killed in action on the morning of the 21st March 1918 during the Battle of St. Quentin (21st March to 23rd March 1918).  He was 34 years old.  His name is engraved on the Pozieres Memorial.

The 2/6th Manchesters at that time were part of the 5th Army serving with the 66th (2nd E. Lancs) Division in the 199th Brigade, alongside their comrades in the 2/5th and 2/7th battalions.   The 2/6th battalion was in position in the Villeret area, this location lying due east of the town of Roisel on the D57 and north of St.Quentin.   The Official History gives a number of mentions of the fighting retreat of the 2/6th battalion which began with the German advance breaking through the Forward Zone in the morning of the 21st March.    Those of the 2/6th Manchesters forming a "garrison" in Villeret were soon under attack by enemy troops, whose leading lines pushed on to engage the British in the Battle Zone.

Opposite Villeret a company of the 2/6th Manchesters was engaged in severe fighting around Fervaque Farm, but had to retreat when in early afternoon it came under "liquid fire", the Germans entering the farm finding just 8 men fit for duty.   The fighting retreat continued with similar stands being undertaken against the advancing Germans, for example at Carpeza Copse, with heavy losses being incurred.  In April 1918 the battalion was reduced to a training cadre and in the following July disbanded in France.
PhilipG.

Offline Gerryh

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2015, 01:04:12 PM »
Wendy 
I have always believed that teachers and "intellectuals" as a whole were cautious about joining the earlier Pals battalions because they were susceptible to anti-war protests and pressure from the Suffragette movement.  As a result, in the 22nd and almost the last, Charlie May's battalion, there were a number of teachers who joined up.  It seems to be a trend in other regiments...
Here are some names:  Capt. Albert Edward Bland, Lieut. Joshua Hain Cansino, Capt. Charles Mostyn Lloyd, Capt. Frank Earles, Lieut. George Ryall, Sgt. Richard Henry Tawney, Lieut. Marcus Loftus Woodhouse...
Tawney of course is fascinating.  He was a founder of the Workers' Education Association and a Don at Oxford.  After the war he was Professor of Economic History at the London School of Economics and was economic adviser to Ramsay MacDonald's Labour Government in 1924.  (MacDonald was one of the many on the left who opposed the war).
Many people, including Charlie, tried to persuade Tawney to accept a commission.  He always refused, and one reason was because he was a socialist.
Gerry

 

Offline wendyg

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2015, 03:59:51 PM »
Thanks for this. I will investigate further

Wendy

Offline Gerryh

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2016, 07:20:45 PM »
Do you not think, as I do, that the later 'Pals' battalions probably enlisted more white collar workers, which included teachers, than the earlier ones?  If this is true, is it perhaps because the more middle-class 'Pals' were less susceptible to a knee-jerk response to Kitchener's call?

There was an active, and growing resistance to war, "conchies" were on the increase, and many women were becoming radicalised (a much abused word these days) by the Suffrage movement. 

I think those who joined later could have been influenced by this, and they also probably had salaried jobs, as teachers did, rather than weekly or daily paid jobs which were less permanent.

I'd be interested in what people have to say.

Gerryh

Offline Gerryh

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2016, 07:23:27 PM »
Forgive me, I have just noticed that I  had previously sent a post which said much the same thing!  gerryh

Online PhilipG

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Re: Teachers in the Pals for Wendyg
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2016, 11:46:28 AM »
Gerryh,

I have always believed that the "Call to Arms" in 1914 prompted men of all classes, professions and trades to immediately respond to that call, a belief reinforced by an examination of the Manchester City Battalions Book of Honour.  I cite just one name as an example - W.M.Johnson - Chairman & Managing Director of R.Johnson,Clapham & Morris Ltd., Manchester, 16th Mcrs. Kia 2.7.16.   The Manchester Education Committee lists 3 pages of names of teachers serving with the Colours, including women teachers serving in Red Cross Hospitals.  This belief is strengthened  by the fact that my father, my uncle and my wife's relatives enlisted within the first few days of the commencement of hostilities.  You possibly would place these men as "middle class".    I do not think it was "a knee-jerk reaction", in the same way, that early in 1942 and under age, I felt compelled to volunteer for pilot training.   This was no knee-jerk decision.

As regards the enlistment of teachers and "intellectuals" into the Army, I would call your attention to the 20th (University & Public Schools) battalion Royal Fusiliers which enlisted men in Manchester and whose title describes the source of its recruitment.  Robert Graves describes in "Goodbye to All That", that the men of this battalion were "chocolate soldiers" - my relative being one such soldier, but nevertheless  he managed to win a Military Medal before being wounded and subsequently dying in the High Wood battle.

As regards 'conchies" and the 1916 Military Service Act, the situation encompasses all sorts of reasons for delaying enlistment, not least in the matter of Reserve Occupations e.g. Army Boot production in Northampton.

In closing, I trust you are well, and I sense that another of your books is on the way?  Regards. PhilipG.