Author Topic: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine  (Read 7299 times)

Offline sphinx

  • ****
  • Posts: 1,234
1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« on: May 10, 2013, 03:58:17 PM »
Hello,

As you know the Bn were made POW's in 1942 by the Japanese  & spent the rest of the war in the most dreadful conditions with just the clothes they stood up in.

The majority of the Bn had served in Palestine prior to their move to Singapore  and were awarded the GSM with clasp "Palestine".  It would be logical to assume that all the medals were lost in Singapore when they went into captivity, but that doesn't seem to be the case, as over the years I have seen and owned many of them.

Is anyone aware of why the medals still exist.  For example was their an order to remove items of value, regimental silver and the like by ship some time prior to capture and were medals part of this order.

Interested to find out.

Regards

Offline themonsstar

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,405
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2013, 07:46:34 AM »
Hi Sphinx

A lot of them were issue after the War?

Offline sphinx

  • ****
  • Posts: 1,234
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2013, 09:04:32 AM »
Roy,

They were actually issued a couple of years prior to capture and there are equal amounts of medals to survivors as well as casualties.

I was wondering what happened to the soldiers families prior to the Regiments capture.  I am assuming all the married soldiers families would have lived in Barracks and I haven't heard that they were captured so maybe a boat full of them took all valuables with them for the whole regiment?

Just a suggestion,

Regards

Offline Bob.NB

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 298
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2013, 11:34:54 AM »
Sphinx,
On page 44 of A.C.Bell's "History of the Manchester Regiment" it states "Early in the year, the decision was taken to send to Australia the colours and the silver of the battalion for safe keeping."
Not sure whether this would have included personal medals or even whether the Palestine medals had been issued by then but I think not.
The Manchester medal roll seems to indicate 1949, whereas the Scots Guards seem to have got them in 1943 - if I am reading the roll correctly.
Best wishes.
Bob B

Offline sphinx

  • ****
  • Posts: 1,234
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2013, 12:06:21 PM »
Bob/Roy,

If I am wrong I apologise but I have at the back of my mind reading about the ceremony to award the medals soon after leaving Palestine.

I will re-check my sources.

Bob has come up with 2 good reasons why they survived and I will have to check those out.

Thanks for all the replies and I will get back to you if and when I find the definative answer.

regards

Offline Robert Bonner

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,389
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2013, 03:06:23 PM »
A popular evening feature in Singapore was the Beating of Retreat on the battalion sports ground.  The 1st Battalion Band and Drums, in white uniforms, complete with their silver drums and bugles, presented a wonderful spectacle and the occasions brought many sightseers, both military and civilian.

These were discontinued in late 1940 when the silver drums and bugles, together with the Regimental Silver and the Colours, were sent to Australia to be lodged for the duration of the war in the safe custody of the Manchesters affiliated Regiment, the 10th (Adelaide) Australian Rifles.

The wives and children made their own way back in dribs & drabs, according to the available space on the ships.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 03:26:14 PM by Robert Bonner »
Robert

Offline Robert Bonner

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,389
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2013, 04:30:04 PM »
Am I correct in assuming that the GSM with clasp Palestine was not issued to the Manchesters until post-war. If so this would account for a soldier who died as a POW not having one.
Robert

Offline themonsstar

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,405
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2013, 09:46:37 AM »
The Order for the issue of the General Service Medal (GSM) with Clasp "Palestine" come out in (Army Order 247 of 1939). The first issue date to Preston records office 12th April 1940.

Issue Dates

1940. 204 medals
1941. 14
1942. 5
1943. 6
1944. 7
1945. 20
1946. 29
1947. 47
1948. 37
1949. 57
1950. 201
1951. 2
1952. 1
1953. 6
1954. 1
1955. 0
1956. 2
1957. 0
1958. 5
1959. 0
1960. 1
1961. 0
1962. 1
1963. 1
1964. 0
1965. 0
1966. 1

1983. 1 3527196 (Pte) L/Sgt J.Davies medal was issue to his NoK  (4/8/1983)

Total medals issue = 649

Offline Robert Bonner

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,389
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2013, 11:47:31 AM »
Thanks Roy. Most helpfull.
Robert

Offline sphinx

  • ****
  • Posts: 1,234
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2013, 12:37:53 PM »
Yes, thanks Roy

Offline rafboy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,141
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2013, 06:27:44 PM »
The following is the reply I received from Arthur Lane who was there.

Cliff


In September 1940 all those who served in Palestine were awarded the medal but the actual medals which were after all a general service medal with clasp remained in the UK.

Wwe were only allowed to wear the ribbon.  The actual medal had to be applied for after the war and they were delivered by mail along with the war medals
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline sphinx

  • ****
  • Posts: 1,234
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 01:57:33 PM »
Thanks cliff and of course mr. Lane.

A hitherto unrecorded fact of regimental medallic importance.

Regards

Offline themonsstar

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,405
Re: 1st Bn Medals for Palestine
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2013, 08:53:23 AM »
Here is Arthur Lane and other lads page, issue from 1950