Author Topic: Over Peover, Cheshire village War Meml - Pte William STREET, 5048, 13th Btn  (Read 15397 times)

MBrockway

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Hello Folks,

Some of you may recognise me from the GWF.  My main area of interest is the KRRC as my grandfather served with them 1914-1919, but I'm currently researching the men commemorated on the village war memorial in Over Peover, Cheshire (just south of Knutsford).  If you do a search on "Peover" on the GWF you 'll find my various posts so far.

One of these Over Peover men was Private William STREET, 5048, 13th (Service) Battalion, The Manchester Regiment.

He died 25 April 1917 aged 28 somewhere in Greece/Macedonia.  He is buried in KARASOULI MILITARY CEMETERY.  13th Btn were in 66th Brigade in 22nd Division at Salonika at the time.

From CWGC, he was the son of John & Agnes STREET of the Mainwaring Arms, Over Peover.

This pub is now the well-known Whipping Stocks Inn on the corner of the A50 and Stocks Lane about 2 miles south of Knutsford.

My researches into his family are by no means complete.  There are a lot of potential "William Streets", but my leading candidate was born in 1888 in the Holmes Chapel area, which is about 5 miles further south on the A50.

The 1891 Census for Holmes Chapel (=Church Hulme Civil Parish) has ...
John STREET, 33yrs
Agnes STREET, 32yrs
William STREET, 3yrs

Then in the 1901 Census for Lower Withington (about 4 miles NE of Holmes Chapel and about the same distance SE of Over Peover) there's ...
Agnes STREET; 42yrs; born Newport, Salop; housekeeper/domestic
Wm Hy STREET [presumably William Henry]; 12yrs; born Ches... [i.e. illegible]; attending school

No sign of John Street, however in Twemlow Entire Civil Parish (the next village, ~2 miles away), I found ...
John STREET; 42yrs; born Kermincham [very near to Twemlow]; butler/domestic

It seems pretty likely this is the missing husband.

I cannot find an Agnes STREET in the 1881 census, and since John & Agnes would have been 23 and 22 respectively in 1881, it is likely that they were not married then.  I found this household in Blackden Heath (about 2 miles south of Over Peover):
Henry STREET; 47 yrs; born Blackden; Farmer of 11 acres
Sarah STREET; 46 yrs; born Withington
John STREET; 22 yrs; born Kermincham; footman (unemployed)

Piecing this together we have William's father moving from footman to butler to pub within a 5 mile radius and marrying a lass from 45 miles away in Shropshire along the way!  I've had no luck on tracing the marriage yet.  Also I have no info yet on whether the Streets ran the pub or merely lived and worked there.

William appears to have been born while his father was in service as a butler and before they moved the few miles N to the pub.

What I'd like some help with from all of you is filling in more detail of William Street's time in 13/Manchesters leading up to his death on 25 April 1917.

I have no access to SDGW, so I cannot say whether he was k-i-a, d-o-w, or simply died.  Can anyone help with a SDGW look-up?

Also I have very little information about the exploits of 13th Btn.  The date of death coincides with one of the more serious Actions at Lake Doiran, but at Salonika it is just as likely that he died of sickness.  Can one of the experts help here?

I'm aiming to write all this up to give to the villagers, though I think I'll only have basic details in time for Remembrance Day, so any assistance will be greatly appreciated:)
Cheers,
Mark
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 08:04:12 PM by MBrockway »

Offline harribobs

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sdgw

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MBrockway

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That was quick - thanks very much!

I've just posted a picture of his inscription on the meml.

Goostrey is about 3 miles south of the pub and very close to most of the other locations mentioned.
Cheers,
Mark

Offline harribobs

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no problem, just been tying to work out what was going happening on the 4th, it seems to have started with training but unfortunatly the WD is very faint, the actions were indeed at Lake Dojran, Dugout hill

« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 10:28:39 AM by harribobs »
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
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MBrockway

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Do you mean the 4th or the 25th of the 4th?

His Date of Death was 25th April ... just checking in case you're grinding through the War Diaries two weeks early  :o

Thanks for the map - great!
Cheers,
Mark

Offline Wendi

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Hi Mark!


Agnes STREET; 42yrs; born Newport, Salop; housekeeper/domestic
Wm Hy STREET [presumably William Henry]; 12yrs; born Ches... [i.e. illegible]; attending school

1901 Census RG13/3317 Folio 63 Page 3
Jodrell Lane, Lower Withington
Grace Slater    40 Head Single Dressmaker born Lower Withington
Ann Slater    32 Neice Single ditto born ditto
on the next page but appears to be the same household
Agnes J Street    42 Wife married Housekeeper born Salop ~ Newport
Elsie M Street    14 Dressmakin Apprentice Westmorland ~ Kendall
Wm Hy Street    12 Ches ~ Twendow
Lucy M Street    10 Ditto
Dorothy S Street 3 Ches Blackden
Sarah Street    66 Widow Mother Ches ~ Lr Withington  ;)

I think the above family are here in 1891  :-\
RG12/2843 Folio 17 Page 3
Civil Parish: Twemlow
Ecclesiastical Parish: Goostrey cum Barnshaw
Registration District: Congleton
Sub-registration district: Church Hulme
Twemlow Green
John Street 32 Butler Domestic Lab Kermincham
Agnes Jane Street 32 Shropshire Newport
Eloise M Street 4 Westmoreland, Natland
William H Street 2 Chester Twemlow
Lucy M Street    2/12 ditto

The 1891 Census for Holmes Chapel (=Church Hulme Civil Parish) has ...
John STREET, 33yrs
Agnes STREET, 32yrs
William STREET, 3yrs

But I can't seem to find these 3 !  do you have a reference please ? 

Wendi  :)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 05:55:25 PM by Wendi »
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline Wendi

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 ::) just an addition to my previous post

Quarter to September 1885 in the District of Ormskirk, Lancashire are the marriages of

George Barton
Agnes Jane Beeston
John Street
Sarah Ann Wootton

The only sure way of finding out who married whom is to obtain a certificate  ???

The registration of the birth of a Elsie Mary Street in the Qtr. to Sept. 1886 is in Kendal District

and for

William Henry Street the Qtr to Sept 1888 in Congleton.

Wendi  :)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 05:46:37 PM by Wendi »
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline harribobs

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Do you mean the 4th or the 25th of the 4th?

His Date of Death was 25th April ... just checking in case you're grinding through the War Diaries two weeks early  :o


dear me...why did i get the 4th in my head??, i will have another look later but they are not easy to read!! >:(
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline sphinx

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I have William Henry Sreets' 1915 Trio and death plaque.
He was killed in action during the Battle of Dojran which took place on the 24th and 25th April 1917 in Salonika.
I have visited Goostrey church and taken some lovely photos of his name on the memorial.

regards
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 10:27:54 AM by harribobs »

Offline Wendi

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Hi sphinx

Do the medals include his middle name?

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

MBrockway

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Re: Over Peover, Cheshire village War Meml - Pte William STREET, 5048, 13th Btn
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2007, 01:38:00 PM »
You'll have realised I don't usually have access over the weekend  :(  but what a feast of excellent news to come back to at the beginning of a new week.  :D

Wendi - I'll need to track back through my notes to corrrelate your census data with mine.  My 1881 data was from the Latter Day Saints website - but you won't find "Peover" in any searches because they've consistently transcribed it as "Plover"!

The 1891 and 1901 data was sourced from a mixture of FreeBMD and CheshireBMD (do a Google to get the exact URLs).

The parishes are a bit confusing as there was some re-arrangement in the Holmes Chapel/Congleton/Knutsford area at this time.



Sphinx - I've got your PM and will reply ASAP.

Many thanks for this excellent progress.
Cheers,
Mark


MBrockway

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Re: Over Peover, Cheshire village War Meml - Pte William STREET, 5048, 13th Btn
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2007, 02:44:01 PM »
Hi Mark!

1901 Census RG13/3317 Folio 63 Page 3
Jodrell Lane, Lower Withington
Grace Slater    40 Head Single Dressmaker born Lower Withington
Ann Slater    32 Neice Single ditto born ditto
on the next page but appears to be the same household
Agnes J Street    42 Wife married Housekeeper born Salop ~ Newport
Elsie M Street    14 Dressmakin Apprentice Westmorland ~ Kendall
Wm Hy Street    12 Ches ~ Twendow
Lucy M Street    10 Ditto
Dorothy S Street 3 Ches Blackden
Sarah Street    66 Widow Mother Ches ~ Lr Withington  ;)
Wendi  :)
Wendi,
Still working through cross-checking your data, which seems to be much more complete than my sources.

One thought re the above bit though - you think these Streets and Slaters are the same household but just split across a page end.

I'm not sure so sure, since Grace Slater, 40 is described as "Head", while Agnes Street and Sarah Street are described as "Wife" and "Mother" respectively.  These descriptions normally are the relationship to the Head of the household.  That suggests to me that these are in fact two households, but that either the entry for the Head of the second Household is missing, or the Head of the household (presumably John Street) was not present at Census time.

Are you're sources based on a transcription project?  That might account for a missing entry for John in 1901.  My data was from www.1901censusonline.com, but I have not purchased the actual census image.
Cheers,
Mark

Offline Wendi

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Re: Over Peover, Cheshire village War Meml - Pte William STREET, 5048, 13th Btn
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2007, 03:08:18 PM »
Hummm, I've looked again and think you are probably right it's 2 households as \\ between columns 6 & 7 indicates a new household and one \ indicates 2 families living together in the same household ~ if you see what I mean.

I'm looking at the actual census pages, on ancestry (not assisted by the fact that they transcribed Agnes as "Agnes J Slater")  ::) It's Agnes' distinct place of birth that drew me to them.

My main concern is that they always mentioned his middle name on the census, but you do not appear to have any reference to it on any of the military stuff ??? Have you downloaded his MIC.........I wonder if Sphinx has it ?

If you PM me your email address I'll copy both the census pages to you.

Wendi  :) 
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

MBrockway

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Re: Over Peover, Cheshire village War Meml - Pte William STREET, 5048, 13th Btn
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2007, 03:28:25 PM »
On my Over Peover topic across on the Great War Forum, I reported the unpleasant news that the Memorial had been vandalised a few weeks ago.  Some thieves crowbarred up and pinched some of the large york stone flags that make up the plinth.

Don't get me going on what I think of these b*****ds, and I'm very sure you'll all feel the same too anyway.  >:(

The good news though is that when I drove past the War Memorial this morning, there was a workman beavering away fixing the damage, so it looks like the monument will be back in shape in time for Remembrance Day.  :)
Cheers,
Mark

MBrockway

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Re: Over Peover, Cheshire village War Meml - Pte William STREET, 5048, 13th Btn
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2007, 03:37:57 PM »
Hummm, I've looked again and think you are probably right it's 2 households as \\ between columns 6 & 7 indicates a new household and one \ indicates 2 families living together in the same household ~ if you see what I mean.

I'm looking at the actual census pages, on ancestry (not assisted by the fact that they transcribed Agnes as "Agnes J Slater")  ::) It's Agnes' distinct place of birth that drew me to them.

My main concern is that they always mentioned his middle name on the census, but you do not appear to have any reference to it on any of the military stuff ??? Have you downloaded his MIC.........I wonder if Sphinx has it ?

If you PM me your email address I'll copy both the census pages to you.

Wendi  :) 
Wendi - I've sent a PM.  Also I haven't downloaded his MIC - I already had his battalion from CWGC and didn't think I'd get much extra from the £s getting the actual image  ;)
Cheers,
Mark