Author Topic: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921  (Read 7241 times)

corisande

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Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« on: October 20, 2011, 08:45:03 PM »
I am researching British Army in Ireland during the War of Independence. The 1st Manchester Regiment were based in Ballincollig, Cork during this time, and suffered a number of deaths. It is a particularly difficult period as most regiments, and indeed the British government just wanted to forget after the withdrawal of troops in 1922.

I would be grateful if anyone is interested to look at the list and see if I am missing anyone, or if they can add to my researches into any of the men who died.

For the 9 Manchester deaths that I have found click this link

Specific questions I have are

1. The "band boy murders" are quite well known, but I cannot see if Pte Roughley was part of them or not. Roughley was apparently exhumed, but I cannot find anything that led up to his exhumation, nor can I find reference to his reburial in England.

2. A Pte J Kelly was accidentally shot by another Manchester, but a second man Pte Dodd was also shot, and I cannot determine whether he died or not. Also it out appear that the man who shot then, Pte Wardell, was Court Martialed, but I have no idea what happened at his court martial. The service numbers of all the men are on the link

timberman

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Re: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2011, 09:33:00 PM »
Hi corisande

Welcome to the forum.

All the private in Manchester Regiment must of thought you were suitable ;D

Hopefully one of us will be able to help with your questions.

Timberman

Offline Robert Bonner

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Re: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 10:42:55 AM »
The three 17 year old boys were:
Mathew Carson of Stretford, Charles Arthur Chapman of Droylsden and John Cooper of Oldham.

During the summer of 1923 as the result of detailed information the Irish Army found their remains under the hedge where they had been buried by the IRA.  They were then interred in a single coffin and interred at Bandon. In 1924, following negotiations, the coffin was exhumed and returned with full military honours to the regimental depot in Ashton-under-Lyne.  They were then re-interned in Hurst Cemetery.

There is still an unsolved mystery regarding four men from the regiment: Privates Pincher, Mason, Caen and Roughley.  They had all been declared absent from barracks at various dates in early 1921 and initially were believed to have deserted.  Sufficient information regarding Roughley was later received to show on his documents Death accepted for official purposes.   it is now accepted that all four men were abducted by the IRA and killed.

The only other person not on your list, and you may have it recorded elsewhere, is Lieut FC Sharman, one of the Royal Artillery officers attached to the battalion, who was killed on 18 August 1920.

I hope that this is of help.
Robert
Robert

Migky.

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Re: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2011, 04:05:50 PM »
Burial details for the young lads buried in Ashton.

Click here for Ashton burials

Migky  ;)

corisande

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Re: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2011, 04:13:11 PM »
Thanks for your welcome  :)

And thanks for that information on the missing soldiers who are not on my list.

Certainly the "problem" of missing soldiers is a much greater one than I realised when I started on my database. To a large extent, the men who fell in action, or who can be found on CWGC records are the easy one to research. The ones who fell through the net are much more difficult.

With Roughly I was thrown by this letter I found in another soldier's file


Roughley, I assume incorrectly got included in the Band Boy list. However information seems to point to him also being exhumed and reburied from another location. I was trying to establish if anyone knew of a funeral for him in Manchester

And as far as any readers here are aware, Privates Pincher, Mason, Caen  were never exhumed and taken back to England

I ask the question because these re-burials seem to have been done with virtually no publicity in Ireland nor nationally in England. It only appears to have been the local press who reported the funerals, all be it with military honours.

I have a fairly detail account of the Band Boys here, which I believe to be correct on this link

And thanks on Sharman I have him on this link
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 04:18:51 PM by corisande »

corisande

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Re: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2011, 04:14:43 PM »
Migky 

I am getting an error on that link. Does it refer to the 3 Band Boys or are there more than three men mentioned.

Migky.

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Re: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2011, 04:21:12 PM »
Ok go to this link and scroll down to the bottom and click on search burial records. then put one of the lad names in and you should get his burial details click on the garve number and it will show all of them plus two other lads in the same grave

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/corpgen2/cemandcrem.htm

Migky.

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Re: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2011, 04:23:22 PM »
Now unles you can either get some kind soul to take photos of the grave, this site has all three of them but charges for them.

http://twgpp.org/information.php?id=1822899

http://twgpp.org/information.php?id=1822902

http://twgpp.org/information.php?id=1822909


Hope this helps?

Oh! & welcome, sorry for the bad manners  :-[

Migky  ;)

Update.

You need only pay for one of those as i stated they are all in the same grave, Doh! i have these moment  :-[


As none of this is nolonger need i will just stick with the welcome ;)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 05:45:08 PM by Migky. »

corisande

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Re: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2011, 04:24:28 PM »
OK

Thanks for that ... off to check it out

Offline mack

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Re: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2011, 05:37:23 PM »
hiya corisande.
you dont need to pay for any grave images,there is a photo of the the headstone of the 3 bandsmen in our war graves library,one of our mods will give you the link

mack ;D

corisande

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Re: Manchester Regiment in Ireland 1919-1921
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2011, 05:39:22 PM »
Mack

Thanks, that is very kind