Author Topic: Manchester Regiment 3rd Battalion  (Read 9805 times)

M/C P

  • Guest
Manchester Regiment 3rd Battalion
« on: February 10, 2008, 08:12:35 AM »
I am reseaching another of my family and I do have some limited information and I was wondering if someone could help me please to understand what I have:
Attestation
World War 1 Attestation Short Service for the Duration of the War
Appointed to the Manchester Regiment. He was 35 years old and had a wife and three children. One a young baby.
Manchester Regiment 24781 Private
Manchester Regiment 270044 Private


Ernest enlisted and was attested 4 June 1915, posted 11 June 1915, private 3rd Battalion, Manchester Regiment;
Appointed 3rd Battalion unpaid Lance Corporal 22 September 1915;
Appointed 3rd Battalion paid Lance Corporal 22 November 1915;
Posted 13th Battalion ( Med. Ex. Force.) Lance Corporal, 3rd January 1916;
Does this mean he was despatced to a hospital to serve?

Posted 10th? Battalion, Lance Corporal, 16 July 1916; Could be 40th Btn?
Posted 3rd Battalion, Lance Corporal 2 September 1916;
Transferred Lincs. Regiment Humber, Garrison Lance Corporal, 29 September 1916;
Was it usual to transfer to another Regiment in England?

Transferred Manchester Regiment 3rd Battalion Lance Corporal 12 Jan 1916.
Manchester Regiment, posted British Expeditionary Force, Lance Corporal, 7 February 1917, attached to the 127th, Trench Mortar Battery, absorbed into the 127th Trench Mortar Battery, 14 May 1917.
Is the Trench Mortar Battery still in the Manchester Regiment? Would he have served in France?

Discharged para. 392 x v1 K R, Lance Corporal, 12 September 1917.
Not to be compulsorily posted for service under the M S Review of Exceptions Act 1917, in accordance with A.C.I .1106 of 1917
What does this mean?

I would appreciate any advice at all really,

Thank you,
Pat




 

Offline harribobs

  • Site Monkey
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,181
Re: Manchester Regiment 3rd Battalion
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2008, 10:15:45 AM »
med ex force is actually the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force, no medical connection,

re-numbered in 1917 with 270044, which is actually a 6th battalion number (could the 10 be a 6?)

i (or someone) need to look at the dates and see where the battalions were at the times involved and see if we can find the 127th trench mortar  battery ( not manchester regiment btw)

cheers

chris

“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

M/C P

  • Guest
Re: Manchester Regiment 3rd Battalion
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2008, 11:17:33 AM »
Thank you so much Chris for your explanations for me, I would never have worked out what Med. Ex.Force is.

The Battalion is really hard to decipher it could be a 6 with a curl on it.

I think Ernest Norburn was mentioned in Despatches, at least it is the same name and rank, but his no. is 770 under Royal West Kent Regiment, but perhaps that is stretching the imagination to think he could be attached to them in the 127th Trench Mortar Battery? However this no. is not mentioned on his papers or on the Medal cards listings so it is probably someone else. add. It was, it was indexed incorrectly should have been W Norburn!
I did Google this but although some were mentioned I could not find the 127th. His service was not long in duration but it seems to me in my ignorance to be an interesting and varied period for him.

Thank you again Chris you are very, very helpful to me,

Kind regards,
Pat
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 04:40:15 AM by M/C P »

Offline sphinx

  • ****
  • Posts: 1,234
Re: Manchester Regiment 3rd Battalion
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2008, 07:52:22 PM »
Divisions in WW1 were organised into 3 brigades, each with 4 Infantry Battalions. 
The supporting troops, ie. Artillery, Engineers, Signals and TMB's were organised at Brigade level.  However the TMB's operated Medium and Heavy TMB's only and were Royal Field Artillery men.  In addition each Brigade had a Light TMB staffed by their own Infantrymen.

The 42nd (East Lancashire) Division had 3 Brigades, 125th, 126th and 127th, each having all supporting units as described above to support their 4 Infantry Battalions.

127th Brigade supported the 5th, 6th, 7th & 8th Bn's The Manchester Regiment.

The Light TMB's were staffed from men in the Infantry Battalions and each man retained his Regimental identification and badges so the 127th TMB consisted solely of Manchester Regiement Territorial soldiers.
Hope that make things clearer.

M/C P

  • Guest
Re: Manchester Regiment 3rd Battalion
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2008, 08:19:56 PM »
Dear Sphinx

Yes that certainly does and also clears up questions regarding two other soldiers service in the RE. Sorry I did not keep awake to reply sooner was feeling battle fatigued!

Many thanks again for your execellent advice.
Kind regards
Pat

M/C P

  • Guest
Re: Manchester Regiment 3rd Battalion
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2008, 04:43:18 AM »
I never noticed before but his attestation paper is overstamped DECEASED. I cannot find his death from 12 September 1917, and the only three papers I have do not mention when he died ( from his service/ pension papers).

I have checked the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and his name is not recorded. It also does not mention that a pension was awarded anywhere on these papers.

Assuming that it has been recorded after his discharge and before a pension was granted then if he was no longer a soldier would his death be recorded in the civilian records or the Army records?

I would appreciate any further help please

Thank you

Pat

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,055
Re: Manchester Regiment 3rd Battalion
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 06:58:01 AM »
pte 24781 ernest norburn
3rd manchesters
enlisted 4-6-1915 aged 35.he was notified of his attestation by pte 12736,r.jones,19th manchesters
wife elizabeth norburn[nee toole]married at st.gabriels,hulme on 3-8-1901
children.
ernest edward,born 1-6-1902
wilfred.born 12-3-1908
lawrence.born 31-3-1915.
resided 14 hardman st,hulme
served in med expeditionary force with the 13th manchesters,disembarked 3-1-1916
29-9-1916.transferred to the 2nd garrison batt,2nd platoon,lincolnshire regt as part of the humber garrison.
12-1-1917.rejoined the 3rd manchesters.

mack

M/C P

  • Guest
Re: Manchester Regiment 3rd Battalion
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 08:51:26 AM »
Thank you very much Mack I do have that, and it is the Attestation Papers that is Overstamped "DECEASED" just near the part where his notice is served by by Pte R Jones.

I have searched the Spinning Web for its Roll of Honour, and the omissions and amendments, the National Archives etc. What a pity they did not see fit to add the date, they added just about everything else on this poor man!

Discharged para. 392 x v1 K R, Lance Corporal, 12 September 1917.
Not to be compulsorily posted for service under the M S Review of Exceptions Act 1917, in accordance with A.C.I .1106 of 1917 Do you know what this means Mack?

I found this on the Long, Long Trail:"In September, 1917, those functions of the Directorate of Recruiting which were not transferred to the Ministry of National Service, were divided into two sections: that section dealing with "intake" of men (not at first under any Director) was, in Dcember, placed under the Director of Organization, and the section charged with discharges, transfers to the reserve of soldiers for work of national importance, and all questions connected with the civil employment of ex-soldiers, was taken over by the Directorate of Mobilization. Later, the substitution of war-worn soldiers for fit civilians still in civil life was added to its duties."

Do you think it is likely that he fell under the substitution of war-worn soldiers catagory? and that is what the Review of Exceptions covered?

I have been unable to find a proper description of his discharge reference other than this, but maybe I am grasping at straws.


Thank you again for your help,
Pat
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 03:50:36 AM by M/C P »