Author Topic: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).  (Read 8240 times)

Clarky53

  • Guest
Hi my name is Fred Clark, I'm 57 and have just joined this forum after advice from the Ashton museum's curater.
I'm researching my grandfather John William Clark. In the National Roll Register it says John was a veteran soldier who had seen service in South Africa. He joined at the outbreak and was placed on coastal defence and other duties. During the first year he contracted an illness which resulted in him being invalided out that same month (May 1915). He lived at 5 Hughes St, Off Ashton Old Road, Ardwick. I can't find John in any census records, I think he was born in 1870 but we don't know where, we suspect Scotland, though Scots Roots has no records of him either.
Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks.
                               

Offline grimmy

  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 01:54:06 PM »
Hello Fred - and welcome.

He was posted to the Army Service Corps (service no: M/397143) after his spell with the Mancs.

Do you know when and where he died? That might help to pinpoint him - there are several candidates.
The flowers left thick at nightfall in the wood
This Eastertide call into mind the men,
Now far from home, who, with their sweethearts, should
Have gathered them and will do never again.

Clarky53

  • Guest
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 02:25:47 PM »
Hi Grimmy and thanks for the welcome,
                                                             Thats the numbers I have for him, 4217....M/397143. He survived the war but died in the 20's in Manchester. Any info on my grandad would be so much appreciated. As I wrote the only thing I knew about him was where he lived.
Of course the info I have that I was given could also be the wrong one because you say there are other candidates but I know the one on the National Roll of the Great War IS the right one because my dad lived at Hughes St, Ardwick, M/cr.

                                                          Regards,

                                                         Fred Clark.

Offline grimmy

  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2011, 03:36:17 PM »
Fred,

If your birth year of 1870 is correct then a strong(ish) candidate begins to emerge:

1871 2 Boundary Square, Gorton
William Clark, 39, Coachman, b. Leeds
Eliza Clark, 36, b. Kippax (Yorks)
Edith Clark, 3, b. Wakefield
John W. Clark., 4m, b. Longsight, Manchester (The Ancestry index inexplicably gives his birthplace as Longsight, Moray, Scotland!)

In 1881 they were at 6 Florence St., Gorton.
John Clark, 9, b. Gorton
Minnie M. Clark, 7, b. Gorton

The birth of John William Clark was registered at Ardwick, 1870. That of Minnie M. Clark at Ardwick, 1874.

Minnie M. Clark married George K. Mills at Longsight St Clement, 1895. They were living at 27 Ducie St., Longsight in 1901.

I assume that JWC enlisted at an early age, which is probably why he disappears from later censuses.

The flowers left thick at nightfall in the wood
This Eastertide call into mind the men,
Now far from home, who, with their sweethearts, should
Have gathered them and will do never again.

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,379
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 07:30:53 PM »
hiya fred.
if your grandfather was invalided from the army in may 1915,then 4217 john,w clark is not him because he went to france on 15th july 1915.

mack ;D

Clarky53

  • Guest
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2011, 12:15:49 PM »
Hi Mack.
            Gutted, thought I had him there. As I said earlier I have him on the National Roll of the Great War. He's not on the 1901 census because he may be in SA?. He's not on the 1911 census on Genes Reunited site as is not my dad, it's so so confusing.
                                           

                                           Cheers.

Offline Wendi

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,694
  • Peeking into the past
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2011, 09:17:41 AM »
Hi Clarky and welcome to our forum !

Do you have either your Dad's birth Certificate or your grandparents wedding certificate?

I'm thinking there maybe a different way to skin this rabbit !!!

Wendi  ;D
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Clarky53

  • Guest
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2011, 12:31:53 PM »
Hi Wendi.
              This is what started all the problem's, my father told all us he was born 17th Sept 1909. There is no record of a Frederick Clark born that date in either England Wales or Scotland, there was a suspicion they were  Scots so I joined Scots Roots, again with no joy. So we decided to pursue him via his parent's on the census. They're not there. I knew JWC was a soldier in SA so I visited Ardwick barrack's to see what they knew of him. (I actually found the grave of JWC and my nanna (Gertrude Clark) in Gorton cemetery, they both died in the 1920's.) All I got was the National Roll but they were not in Hughes St in the 1911 census. I have my dads marriage certificate which states he was 25 in February 1935 so 26 that year = 1909. Sorry I can't be more forcoming.

                                            Regards

                                           Fred Clark.

                                   


Offline grimmy

  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2011, 04:19:18 PM »
Fred,

Did your father have any brothers/sisters? If so, any dates/places of birth?
The flowers left thick at nightfall in the wood
This Eastertide call into mind the men,
Now far from home, who, with their sweethearts, should
Have gathered them and will do never again.

Offline Wendi

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,694
  • Peeking into the past
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2011, 04:47:45 PM »
........... and can you get a copy of JWC's death cert?  It will be interesting to know who registered his death and should have his age on it.

There is one Frederick Clark whose birth is registered in Essex in the last quarter of 1909.  Your defo sure that this is not your father?

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline grimmy

  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2011, 05:54:41 PM »
.......there was also a Fred Clark, birth registered Chorlton  AND a Frederick Clarke, registered Salford, both last quarter 1909.

Though I would expect someone born 17th Sept to be registered 3rd quarter.

I think we might be looking at an overseas birth or a mis-indexing here.
The flowers left thick at nightfall in the wood
This Eastertide call into mind the men,
Now far from home, who, with their sweethearts, should
Have gathered them and will do never again.

Offline Wendi

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,694
  • Peeking into the past
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2011, 06:09:45 PM »
Nice one grimmy  ;) Currently you have 42 days to register a birth.  I don't know if it was always that way  :-\

Fred is any of this helping?

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Clarky53

  • Guest
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2011, 12:17:31 PM »
I went down the library in Deansgate with no joy. What I do have is my dad's ID Card from the war. I was told you could chase this up via the NHS. I made a few call's but no body was any the wiser. As a family we're all confused as dad used to call him self a Scot but they have no record. I am going to get the proper dates for burial for g/dad nd see from there.

                                                                              Thank's for your help so far, Fred Clark.

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,379
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2011, 02:28:21 PM »
hiya fred.
john william was buried in gorton cemetery on 15th may 1930 and gertrude on 18th feb 1929,grave ref I.NC.32.

mack ;D

Clarky53

  • Guest
Re: Pt John William Clark, 4217, 8th Manchester Reg (Ardwick).
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2011, 04:19:59 PM »
Thank's Mack, that's a fantastic assist. I'll get the death cert's tomorrow.  Thank's again.