Author Topic: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment  (Read 5327 times)

Oldestrocker

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William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« on: November 15, 2010, 02:32:27 PM »
Hi everyone,
Where do I start?

My grandfather above lived just outside Copster Green, Lancashire at the outbreak of the war. He was the son of Samuel Halliwell and they farmed at amongst other places, Dewhurst Farm.
He was born on the 4th November 1891 and I believe in or around the Great Harwood area of Blackburn.

I hold his medals.
He never talked about what happened in the war other than I heard that he was 'gassed'. I have no idea when he was discharged, other than he went back into farming. I wish now I had talked more to him during his lifetime, but the time never seemed to be right. I was 20 when he died in 1969.

We were very close, but it seemed that the years from 1914 - 1919 never happened!

Like most families, the history of these years is very sketchy. Over the years photos, letters, in fact everything was cleared when he died. I don't even have a photo of him and have to rely on memories.
Over the past few years apart from finding his medals in an old tin in a garage in 2007, I have managed to gather together some old photos of his family - brothers etc. What is missing is his war record. It may add to the reason why it was such a closed book to everyone.

I am proud of my grandfather and even after 40 years I still miss him terribly.

I honestly don't mind what information is given to me as it will be more than I have currently.
Where did he go, what theartres was he involved in etc.

So please could anybody point me in the right direction to finally make it easier for me to understand how the war affected him.

Thanks in anticipation

Mr L Palliser


timberman

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2010, 05:08:57 PM »
Hi Oldestrocker

Welcome to the forum.

I've found his Medal Index card on Ancestry but no other records.

He was entitled to the Victory and British medals also he was given a Silver War Badge some information  on the badge can be found by clicking on the link below.

http://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=1839.0

Timberman

Offline grimmy

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2010, 05:45:52 PM »
Hello Oldestrocker

I know exactly what you mean about your grandfather - I had a similar experience with mine. My admiration for him has increased a hundredfold now I know what he went through (I was lucky enough to find his service record). Thing is -  I want to tell him so, but I can't (he died in 1971). His last ever words to me were "Good luck, lad".

Your William was probably born at Top o' Dean farm, Great Harwood. His parents, Samuel and Catherine (nee Barton), were living there in 1891. They were at Dewhurst Farm in 1901. Samuel was a carter before taking up farming.

William's older brother Frank joined the Army Service Corps (M2/135784) as a driver and was posted to Egypt. His home address was Hazel Moor, Salesbury (next of kin Kate, mother).
The flowers left thick at nightfall in the wood
This Eastertide call into mind the men,
Now far from home, who, with their sweethearts, should
Have gathered them and will do never again.

Oldestrocker

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2010, 12:29:50 AM »
Hi Oldestrocker

Welcome to the forum.

I've found his Medal Index card on Ancestry but no other records.

He was entitled to the Victory and British medals also he was given a Silver War Badge some information  on the badge can be found by clicking on the link below.

http://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=1839.0

Timberman

Thank you for that info. I have both medals but never knew anything about the Silver War Badge.
The link you have given me should help to find out a lot more hopefully. It would be great if I could put all of his history together and find out where he served, where he was injured and when. I presume that I need his service record for that.

I know that it is a long shot, but is there a museum for the Mcr Reg that might turn up some more info? Are there any photos that could possibly exist?

But what you have done so far for me has started the ball rolling - that I thank you for.

Oldestrocker

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2010, 12:39:40 AM »
Hello Oldestrocker

I know exactly what you mean about your grandfather - I had a similar experience with mine. My admiration for him has increased a hundredfold now I know what he went through (I was lucky enough to find his service record). Thing is -  I want to tell him so, but I can't (he died in 1971). His last ever words to me were "Good luck, lad".

Your William was probably born at Top o' Dean farm, Great Harwood. His parents, Samuel and Catherine (nee Barton), were living there in 1891. They were at Dewhurst Farm in 1901. Samuel was a carter before taking up farming.

William's older brother Frank joined the Army Service Corps (M2/135784) as a driver and was posted to Egypt. His home address was Hazel Moor, Salesbury (next of kin Kate, mother).

Thank you very much. Words fail me - yes you have the right family - Samuel is my great grandfather.
That info has confirmed the connection with Great Harwood.

What you don't know is that you have opened another area in my family's history thatis at odds to what everybody else was given to understand. My great uncle Frank and his brothers were said to have NOT joined up - my grandfather was the only one that did. That was the reason for the big family fall out. When my grandfather returned from the war it was said that he was refused by his father to come back on the farm as punishment for leaving the family.

I now need to look at other things now as well.

Once again thanks for the info

Offline harribobs

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2010, 04:19:58 PM »
the service number 277588 makes him a member of the 7th battalion, however i am not sure whether it is the 1/7th or the 2/7th

If someone can post the medal roll references, we may be able to ascertain the correct battalion from the medal rolls

chris
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Oldestrocker

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2010, 08:36:44 PM »
Hi,

Many thanks for your reply.
I have in my possession a small brown prepaid post card (Army Form B5112) - Officer in Charge of Records, Preston.
It is dated 4/7/22
It says my Grandfather was awarded the BWM & VM
There are some other number and letters - G627/M-13-39

Does that help trace the relevant one?

I hope so.

But thank you so far for getting me that little bit closer.

Thanks once again

Offline themonsstar

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2010, 05:51:03 PM »
Medal roll & SWB Roll

Offline harribobs

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2010, 08:58:01 PM »
Thanks to the themonsstar for posting the medal rolls

we can see now that he was in the 2nd/7th (2/7) battalion, the 2/7 were the second line territorial battalion, they originally provided replacement troops for the 1/7th but went to war in their own right in early 1917

have a look at this section from the main site,it is about the 66th division of which the 2/7th were a part. it will give you a flavour of what they were doing in France and Flanders

66th Division

cheers

chris
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Oldestrocker

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2010, 01:24:47 PM »
Medal roll & SWB Roll

Hi, Many thanks for posting those photos. It was so strange to see his name entered recording that he was discharged due to wounds/sickness. I have researched the KR's and the relevant section is pretty vague. I suppose they didn't bother with the date and place that he was injured. I presume he was hospitalised - would there be any records of that?

I have little bits of info that he did reveal to me. Would it be possible that he was hospitalised in Manchester somewhere near Cheetam Hill?

As regards where he saw action, it was only by chance that I was watching a TV documentary a couple of days ago that centred arround the coalfields of northern france. They were finding bodies still where they had died.

On a slightly different note. I now live midway between Canterbury and Folkestone. There is currently a lot of work going on at the moment in trying to make Remembrance Road in Folkestone an area of respect and dignity considering that it was the road that most soldiers walkied down to catch the boats to France. Do you have any knowledge of this being the case? 

I am so pleased with what you have found for me - it is opening up a whole new way of thinking about the sheer scale of the Great War.
Thanks for your patience and time spent. 

   

Oldestrocker

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2010, 01:31:44 PM »
Thanks to the themonsstar for posting the medal rolls

we can see now that he was in the 2nd/7th (2/7) battalion, the 2/7 were the second line territorial battalion, they originally provided replacement troops for the 1/7th but went to war in their own right in early 1917

have a look at this section from the main site,it is about the 66th division of which the 2/7th were a part. it will give you a flavour of what they were doing in France and Flanders

66th Division

cheers

chris



Hi
Thankyou for the info and especially the link into the 66th. Reading it has given me an insight into what he had to endure.
I have asked some questions of themonsstar above. I wonder if you are able to give me your opinions please.

You have both been so kind in managing to get me this far in my quest.

Thanks for the work and effort you have put in


Offline harribobs

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Re: William HALLIWELL 277588 Manchester Regiment
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 06:55:20 PM »
In order to get the information you want, his service record would have had to have survived and unfortunately approx. 70% of all soldiers service records were destroyed in the blitz in the second world war

chris
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."