Author Topic: Pte Albert Lee (35641) 16th Battaion Manchesrter Regt  (Read 5278 times)

JohnieW

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Pte Albert Lee (35641) 16th Battaion Manchesrter Regt
« on: January 27, 2008, 10:10:38 PM »
Hi,
 
I know my Great Grandad served in the Manchester Regiment through WW1. My own grandfather has passed away recently and I have been left his fathers WW1 medals.
 
35641 Pte Albert Lee, Manch R
 
I was told he was wounded by shrapnel, I have a photo of him with his arm in a sling in the hospital just before being sent home.

And recently found these details ..

Regimental No. 35641
Rank: Leutenant Corporal / Pte
Enlistment 25-11-15
Discharge: 05-07-1918
Cause of discharge: 392 XVI (2 B.I.)
(xvi) No longer physically fit for service
 
Victory medal. Roll H/1/104?38 page7768
British war medal do do
"List H/1035/1 Cancelled resubmitted on list H1081/1"
 
How would I find out anything more, like which battalion, company, where he enlisted, that kind of thing?

Which Battalion he served in would be the most interesting, to be able to research their campaign through those years.
 
Johnie
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 04:11:15 PM by harribobs »

Offline harribobs

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2008, 11:27:15 PM »
hi johnie

and welcome to the group

i'll move this over to the WW1 section, however i'm afraid he wasn't a Leutenant Corporal, he was a lance corporal ;)

35641 is a mid war number, used across the regiment however we'll see if we can find his battalion

cheers

chris
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JohnieW

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2008, 05:03:30 PM »
Doh! it was late.

If it helps, he was born 6th June 1889 at 30 Grey street, Ancoats.
His father was John Thomas Lee, and his mother Mary Jane Lee, nee Hunt.
 
He married Bertha Hibbert 10th Feb 1912, and was living at 17 Clyde Street, MC on the marriage certificate. She 17 Matilda Street, MC
 
Not sure where these streets are/were in Manchester,. the church for their marriage was St. Philips, Bradford Rd, Manchester.
 
He had 2 old brothers who my grandad knew nothing of, quite a bit older, and there was a little speculation that the older brothers may have died in WW1.

Johnie

The Colonel

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2008, 06:10:56 PM »
Hi Johnie, The 1891 census gives the following information:-

Manchester, New Cross.
30, Gray St.
John T Lee head 36 Stone cutter born Rochdale
Mary J Lee wife 37 cigar maker born Manchester
Harry Lee Son 13 errand boy born Manchester
John Lee son 11 born Manchester
Mary Lee daughter 9 born Manchester
Albert Lee son 1 born Manchester.

By the time of the 1901 census the family have split. Albert was living in Lodgings with his father.
It appears that Harry Lee married Alice Ames in 1901, and they resided in the St Philips area. He was an Iron turner/fitter.

Regarding the two elder brothers and the families speculation that they both died during WWI, I can only find one possible Harry Lee.

Pte 94541 HARRY LEE 13th Battalion, The Kings (Liverpool Regt.) Formerly 60347 Manchester Regiment. K.I.A. 14.4.1918. Recorded on the Ploegsteert Memorial. This chap was born in Manchester, Enlisted at Manchester and resided in Manchester, unfortunately the CWGC give no further detail of his next of kin or his age.

The Colonel
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 06:12:30 PM by The Colonel »

tisgrannie

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2008, 07:17:27 AM »
Hi and welcome. If you are interested I have just added a photo of the Ploegsteert Memorial on our War Graves section on the main forum. This was kindly taken recently by one of our members.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74178729@N00/        if you click on this clink it opens at the Memorial.
regards
tisgrannie

Offline harribobs

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2008, 10:53:28 AM »

And recently found these details ..

Regimental No. 35641
Rank: L/Corporal / Pte
Enlistment 25-11-15
Discharge: 05-07-1918
Cause of discharge: 392 XVI (2 B.I.)
(xvi) No longer physically fit for service
 
Victory medal. Roll H/1/104?38 page7768
British war medal do do
"List H/1035/1 Cancelled resubmitted on list H1081/1"


we could do with some kind soul looking up this reference on the medal roll  or Roy will do  ;D ;D)
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline themonsstar

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2008, 02:08:46 PM »
He was sent to the 16th Bn. BWM & VM medal roll 35641 Pte A.Lee 16th Bn Manch Regt.

Silver War Badge roll.

35641 L/Cpl A.Lee Manch Regt.
SWB No 425253.
Enlistment date 25th Nov 1915.
Discharge date 5th July 1918.
Para 392 xvi & A.O.(Army Order) 2.b.i.d/10.8.17.
Age 29.
Overseas Yes.

Offline mack

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2008, 03:15:27 PM »
living on gray st in 1918 were these 2 fellas
pte 251584 james lee.
1/6th manchesters

rifleman.291554 william lee.
both lived at 58 gray st,ancoats

mack

JohnieW

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2008, 04:29:13 PM »
Thank you all,

I think the split in 1901 was when she went back home to mum for the birth of the youngest son George Lee, who apparently had an off licence in Eccles. Mary Emma Lee, was my grandads "Aunty Emma" who had a guesthouse in blackpool.

Any idea what 2.b.i.d stands for?

I see the 16th were Heaton camp; the same place my Grandad enlisted for WW2.

Johnie

Offline mack

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2008, 10:38:59 PM »
Doh! it was late.

If it helps, he was born 6th June 1889 at 30 Grey street, Ancoats.
His father was John Thomas Lee, and his mother Mary Jane Lee, nee Hunt.
 
He married Bertha Hibbert 10th Feb 1912, and was living at 17 Clyde Street, MC on the marriage certificate. She 17 Matilda Street, MC
 
Not sure where these streets are/were in Manchester,. the church for their marriage was St. Philips, Bradford Rd, Manchester.
 
He had 2 old brothers who my grandad knew nothing of, quite a bit older, and there was a little speculation that the older brothers may have died in WW1.

Johnie
the two streets were close to each other in beswick,in 1918 pte john kelley was living at 17 clyde st.
there were two soldiers called lee,still living in gray street,ancoats.

pte 251584 james lee
1/6th manchesters

pte 291554 william lee
19th rifle brigade

both living at 58 gray street,ancoats.

living in the same area,is this man.
pte 133175 albert lee
RAMC
93 tame st,ancoats

could the ref to his medals being resubmitted,mean that one of them was issued from the RAMC.

mack


JohnieW

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2008, 01:07:12 PM »
Thank you all again.

It's a wonderful tale unfolding.

My Grandad; Albert Lee's son, passed away this Christmas day, aged 87. My mum has returned from Manchester having helped sort out his belongings, and beneath all the photos in a drawer, she has found a scarf given out by a Manchster Newspaper many years ago, with upon it, a printed map of France, complete with the WW1 battle lines and such .... And, hand drawn in red ink, is a cirlce around Manchester Hill.

Would you think given the dates of the battle for Manchester Hill (21st March 1918 (?)), and Albert Lee's discharge (Discharge date 5th July 1918), this is fair to assume this is where he gathered his injury?

I have a copy of a photo of him (looking very like my younger cousin), with his arm in the sling, which I've been told was taken at the hospital shortly before discharge.


I still have a couple of questions if anyone can help.

In the medal info "Para 392 xvi & A.O.(Army Order) 2.b.i.d/10.8.17." what wound the '2.b.i.d/10.8.17.' be?

And what is RAMC?

Johnie

Offline harribobs

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) Regt Unknown
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 04:00:18 PM »
Indeed he is wearing hospital blues in that photo

paragraph 392 section xvi (16) kings regulation refers to being discharged from the army because:-

(xvi) No longer physically fit for service

RAMC Royal Army Medical Corps
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 10:50:45 PM by harribobs »
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

tisgrannie

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) 16th Battaion Manchesrter Regt
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 05:44:03 PM »
Hi and welcome great photo. Handsome chap, it would be great to see the scarf. Is there any chance of that. Are the any more of those around these days? Do the rest of the gang know? Sounds unusual. Would love to see one. Sounds like family about his area. Isn't it great how all the pieces start to fit in the jigsaw!
Good luck hope much more unfolds for you.
best wishes
tisgrannie

JohnieW

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Re: Pte Albert Lee (35641) 16th Battaion Manchesrter Regt
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2008, 10:43:15 AM »
I will try borrowing and scanning the scarf when I can. I haven't seen it myself yet, just in conversation over the phone, with a refresher call this morning.

So apparently, it's more of a 'neckerchief' than a scarf. Printed on it is "with kind permission of the Manchester Guardian". It's printed in brown ink on a cream material.

It's a map of France, with the Somme lines, fortifications etc printed on it. Then on a hill, unnamed, is a handmade red mark. The only deliberate colour on it.

I did get the "392 section xvi" bit, it's after that, it has : 2b.i.d. with another date, far earlier than his discharge, and I wondered what the " 2b.i.d. " might stand for?

It was in themonsstar's information above:

35641 L/Cpl A.Lee Manch Regt.
SWB No 425253.
Enlistment date 25th Nov 1915.
Discharge date 5th July 1918.
Para 392 xvi & A.O.(Army Order) 2.b.i.d/10.8.17.
Age 29.

 
I don't see that date on the image I downloaded from the National Archives, but then there is more not on the image I have.

This has been wonderful, I've been tracing my family tree for around twenty years, and not only is it great adding colour to the bare bone information like this, but relatives who have never expressed much interest are fascinated by this new detail.

Johnie