OLD PHOTO

[grimmy]

Her parents were Robert Thomas (Railway Engine Driver, b.1848) and Sarah Ann (nee Liptrot, b.9-7-1849). The family were living at Derby Street, Ince in 1881 and 1891.

I don't want to spoil it for you if you want to do the research yourself, but if you want any more........

[LEYTHER1]

Hello
Sorry - I have been off line this weekend, painting the living room! 
Oh yes please, that woul dbe great if you could find more for me - how did you find this?

Cheers
Lorraine

[grimmy]

A combination of witchcraft and 25 years as a genealogist 

Robert Thomas
married
Sarah Ann Liptrot
at Wigan (Registrar Office or Registrar attended) 1868

children:

Annie b. Wigan c. 1870
Alice  b. Ince c. 1874
Owen b. Ince c. 1876
Catherine b. Ince, c. 1877
Elena b. Ince c. 1879
John b. Ince c. 1881
William b. Ince c. 1890


Owen Thomas (master tailor, later beer seller, b. Wigan c.1820)
married
Ann (b. Dale Abbey, Derbys c 1819)
(possibly Agnes Bowman, married at Liverpool St Philip, 1838)

children:

Sarah b. c. 1840
John b. c. 1843
Robert b. Wigan c. 1848
Isaac b. c. 1850
William b. c. 1853
Frederick b. Wigan c. 1853 (married to Alice)


John Liptrot (nail maker of Pemberton, b. Orrell c. 1827)
married
Mary Waite (b. Pemberton c. 1829)
at Wigan All Saints, 25-7-1848
No father's name given for John. Mary's father was John Waite (weaver of Orrell)

children:

Sarah Ann b. Pemberton 9-7-1849, bapt. Pemberton St John, 2-9-1849
James b. Pemberton c. 1853
John b. Hindley c. 1855
Thomas b. Wigan c. 1860

[LEYTHER1]

I like your witchcraft then!  thanks, keep it up!    I am thrilled.
This is great.  I have had a quick toot on Genes Reunited and have found these names now but am a bit stumped with some,  Can you help and let me know if I am looking incorrectly?

I can see the family of Robert Thomas & Wife Ann  in 1891 & 1881 as you describe.

In 1871, I think I have found them at Crawshaw Cross, Ince, Wigan and Robert is described as a "loco ??"...can you read the second word of the occupation on the census please? There is also a Mary aged 2months who does not show later in 1881, could she have died young?

In 1861 I think I see Robert at Wigan Lane, Wigan aged 12.  Living with parents Owen (a tailor aged 41) and Ann (aged 42).
There is just Robert aged 12 and Brother William aged 8 at this time.

In 1851 I cannot find any of the family on the census search??

In 1841 I can only see Owen aged 20, a tailor, then a David Thomas aged 15, Martha Thomas aged 12, Frederick Thomas aged 8 and Jane Thomas aged 5.
Is this the wrong family? I thought Owen was right with him being a tailor, however you say Owen & Ann married in 1838 so why can't I see her and who are all the others??

Sorry if you have had enough of me by now haha - I am just delighted you have discovered this for me as I was stumped and would not have broken Catherine Thomas' parents like you have!! 

Finally, what do you mean by "Ann (b. Dale Abbey, Derbys c 1819)
(possibly Agnes Bowman, married at Liverpool St Philip, 1838) "....what does Agnes Bowman mean?

Thanks again Grimmy

Lorraine the Leyther!

[grimmy]

Lorraine,

Robert's occupation was Loco Fireman in 1861.

In 1851 Owen Thomas and family were still at Wigan Lane:

Owen 31
Ann 32
Sarah 11
John 8
Robert 3
Isaac 1

The 1841 entry is more interesting! If you'd gone back one page you'd have found Owen's parents. Here's the full entry:

William Thomas 55 (Joiner)
Jane Thomas 50
Mary 28
Robert 14
Owen 20 (Tailor)
David 15
Martha 12
Frederick 8
Jane 5

I was looking for Owen's marriage c. 1840 and I thought that Ann may have been the Agnes Bowman who married in 1838. This is now plainly not the case as Owen was still single in 1841. Ann was a Derbyshire lass, so the wedding may have taken place outside Lancashire.

[grimmy]

Marriage: 30 Jun 1811 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
William Thomas - Joiner of Leigh Parish
Jane Hughes - (X), Spinster of Leigh Parish
    Witness: Thos. Lees; Timothy Taylor
    Married by Banns by: Danl. Birkett, Vicar

[grimmy]

Owen Thomas, widower, 22 Hallgate, Wigan died 12-1-1886 aged 65.
Admin was granted to William Frederic Thomas, son, Licensed Victualler.

William Frederick Thomas (Lic Vict, later Iron Turner, b. Wigan 1853)
married
Alice Mason (b. Orrell c. 1851)
in 1874 at Wigan (Register Office or Registrar attended)

children (all born Wigan):

George Frederick b.c. 1878
William b.c. 1880
Maud b.c. 1883
Clara b.c. 1885 (tailoress)
Catherine b. 1891
John Andrew b. 20-5-1894
Robert b.c. 1897

John Andrew Thomas (bookkeeper) emigrated to the USA on 15-4-1913. He became a US citizen on 3-9-1918 and was granted a US passport. He visited the UK on at least 2 occasions, sailing 28-2-1919 from Liverpool to San Francisco on SS Satanta (working his passage as 4th engineer) and 11-12-1920 Liverpool to New York on SS Carmania.

His address in 1920 was 1613 Helen Avenue, Detroit, Michegan.

And here he is.......

[LEYTHER1]

Hello again
This is absolutely brilliant   

Loco Fireman eh? beats all the coal miners all the other relatives have been haha.  Genes Reunited is rubbish for scrolling pages.  I asked them could they not work on this and they say they have passed it to their "team".  If you search a name, you just get the page it is on, whereas on Ancestry you can scroll back and forth.  It also does not give you similar spelled names, you have to be precise so if it has been entered wrong you are snookerd!
Fancy finding Owens parents too!!  : )
I cannot wait to enter this info into my tree and show it to the family.

A BIG THANK YOU

[LEYTHER1]

NO WAY!!! 
How the hell have you found all this, and a picture too?!?!...I am amazed, I really am.  I cannot thank you enough.   
A book keeper in the family - excellent.

Grimmy, you are a STAR!! 

At a later date if you wouldn't mind and ONLY WHEN you have time, I have a mystery where some relatives are named MALONEY yet are connected to a CHEETHAM and I cannot fathom why - yet my Granddad says the name is definately in the family

[grimmy]

That's also his signature on the photo BTW.

There's a certain irony in the fact that Robert was burning coal as fast as the others were digging it up!

Sounds like there could be some illegitimacy amongst these Maloneys/Cheethams........
 

[LEYTHER1]

haha yeah very true!
Original signature too - how cool is that?    Will go and show it my Mum shortly!

Hmm very possible with the Cheetham / Maloneys.
Please let me know if you could help me with this at some point in the near future  : )

Cheers
Lorraine

[grimmy]

John Andrew Thomas emigrated on the SS Manitoba, departed Liverpool 16-4-1913, arrived Quebec 27-4-1913. He was 18 years old and travelling alone.

He gave his next of kin as brother George, 3 Alfred St, Wigan and his relative in the US was his (unnamed) sister, married to Charles Hurst, 1564 Concord Ave, Barns(?), Michegan.

No problem with further research, Lorraine, though you'd probably be better sending me the details by email. We're getting a little off-topic on this thread!

[LEYTHER1]

that would be great - so his Sister was there in the USA already? he was brave going alone at jus 18.

I have sent you an email from my hotmail account if you could reply if you get it...

thank you