Author Topic: OLD PHOTO  (Read 9633 times)

LEYTHER1

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OLD PHOTO
« on: October 27, 2010, 11:37:30 AM »
Hello All
I am new to this site after joining this morning so hello everyone.
I have acquired some family photographs that I know nothing about.  Ignoring the one of the man on his own, are the other two the same regiment?

The picture of the party reads on the back "2/5 Batt Manchester Regt XMAS 1915".  Do we know where this photo could have been taken based on the flags etc?  I wish I knew which man was my family member.

The picture of the handshakes reads on the back "Just a few knuts from Aldershot".  Does "knuts" mean anything or is it just a spelling mistake for nuts as in nutters?


Any help would be greatly welcomed.

thank you

Offline Pete Th

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 12:46:27 PM »
Hi, the photo of the men shaking hands is definitely Manchester Regiment (from the cap badge). The portrait photo is a different regiment (I think it's the King's Own Royal Lancasters?).

There is a little bit of information about the 2nd/5th Battalion here : http://www.themanchesters.org/2-5th%20batt.htm

Cheers
Pete
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

LEYTHER1

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 01:21:27 PM »
Oh great thanks Pete, I will look at it now - much appreciated.
Is it impossible to tell if the Xmas Party photo is the Manchester regiment?

Cheers
Lorraine

LEYTHER1

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 02:00:49 PM »
As I have now found the batt. was formed in Wigan and my family came from there - is it possible to find out from somewhere if certain names were serving in 1915?
Was there a maximum age limit for serving?  I have two GReat Uncles born 1892 + 1898 (William & Hugh Jones).

I have also details of GG-Uncles who would have been in their 40's  -

thank you


Offline Wendi

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 03:15:13 PM »
Hi Leyther1 and Welcome to our Forum!

Wonderful photos! I don't suppose for a minute either William or Hugh had middle names, did they?

There were 81 "William Jones'" who served overseas in WW1 and 10 Hugh's.

In both photos Sergeant's predominate, I wonder if "knuts" might have been slang for a sergeant ???

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline Pete Th

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 03:23:35 PM »
Hi, I can't see anything on the Xmas party that identifies the regiment but I would trust the writing on the back of the card, especially as they have been specific on the Battalion.

Unfortunately William and Hugh have a very common surname so it would be difficult to trace. There were ten Hugh Jones in the Manchester Regiment:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=first_name%3dhugh%7clast_name%3djones%7ccorpname%3dmanchester&catid=10&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*

and 88 William Jones:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=first_name%3dwilliam%7clast_name%3djones%7ccorpname%3dmanchester&catid=10&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*

Do you have any further info that could help identify them, e.g. a middle name?

The ages of both men would make them eligible for service.

Unfortunately I haven't got access to Ancestry which would allow me to search the military service records. Hopefully one of the other members will be along soon to volunteer but more information such as middle names, birthdays, addresses, parents names, etc. would help with the search.

Cheers
Pete

P.S. I was typing the above when Wendi posted her welcome so some of the information is duplicated  ;D

P.P.S. I think Knuts was a bit like the 'top dog'. I can across the following quote in a book:

"They seem to have an impression that an Englishman does little else but consume ham and eggs, beer or tea with milk in it. I tell you milk is a precious condiment in these parts. The men are the ‘knuts’ in this neighbourhood. They wear a long flowing gown. Indeed before we discovered how the women dressed we had guessing competitions as to whether some of them were men or women."
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

Offline grimmy

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2010, 03:26:23 PM »
KNUT (WWI slang):

Person (usually an officer) who took particular care over his appearance. From the popular music hall song by Arthur Wimperis (1874-1953) Gilbert the Filbert, the Colonel of the Knuts.

The flowers left thick at nightfall in the wood
This Eastertide call into mind the men,
Now far from home, who, with their sweethearts, should
Have gathered them and will do never again.

LEYTHER1

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2010, 03:38:32 PM »
Hiya Wendi / Pete

Alas I do not know of Middle names, just years of birth, would that help? 1892 + 1898?  I also know parents names which were Robert & Catherine Jones and that they came from Ince, Wigan.

I am sure there has to be one of my Jones relatives on the photos - otherwise I don't see why we would have them.  My Nan did not know anyone on them which suggests it was her Husbands side but they never asked questions in those days did they!!   :(

KNUTS!  yes it would fit wouldn't it with them all being sergeant....thanks!!  :D

I will look at the links now - cheers

Out of curiosity, am I clutching at straws here?
I have a picture of my Great Granddad (Hugh's & Williams Dad) born 1872.  I have attached his picture.  Does he look like the bloke with the tache sat on the left of the Xmas table?  Although I have only ever found info on him being a coal miner!

Offline mack

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2010, 04:19:16 PM »
basically knuts means "we are the boys"

mack ;D

Offline Wendi

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2010, 04:26:41 PM »
P.S. I was typing the above when Wendi posted her welcome so some of the information is duplicated  ;D

Great minds Pete  ;D

Leyther, I can find no indication of middle names either.  On the 1901 Census they are living at 1, Heywood Street Luce in Makerfield.

Robert Jones age 28 born Mold, Flintshire. Hewer of Coal underground
Kate Jones 26
Wm. ditto son 9
Lilly ditto daug 8
Robert ditto son 5
Hugh ditto son 3 all born Luce

Did you know about the other son Robert? as there was a Sergeant in 1st/5th Manchester Regiment who was called Robert Jones ??? but of course there are also 28 other Robert Jones' who went overseas with The Manch. ???

Wendi  :) a knutess
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline grimmy

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2010, 04:35:11 PM »
Wendi - for Luce read Ince.

A Robert Jones married Catherine Thomas at Ince St Mary in 1892.
The flowers left thick at nightfall in the wood
This Eastertide call into mind the men,
Now far from home, who, with their sweethearts, should
Have gathered them and will do never again.

Offline Wendi

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2010, 05:16:03 PM »
Hi grimmy !  glad to have you along, I have been long waiting for someone to help me with my Lancashire geography, which I just don't seem to be able to get a handle on, so Thank you  ;D

Lorraine!  I'm not that good on faces, but to me it looks like the same chap & Robert snr. would have been about 42 in 1915

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

LEYTHER1

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2010, 09:59:22 AM »
Hey Up all!  :)
The info you have found IS indeed the family I have found living at Heywood St , Ince, Wigan and the wedding is the same year so we know we are right.

I have learned last night that I can scrap HUGH JONES from the search as he only ever did Home Guard. 

Robert & Williams, Sons of RObert b. around 1872 / 73 were both coal miners upto 1911 and that is as much as I know.  The Father too was a coal miner up to 1911.

The guy on the picture on his own that was confirmed as the Kings Own Royal (Lancaster) is Son Timothy Jones so we can rule him out. 

As for the picture comparison, I was referring to the guy NEXT to the one you picked out Wendi, the one with the bigger tache, but never thought of looking at the other guy first left!  : )

Sorry to be a pain in all of this - I apologise in advance!

Lorraine



Offline grimmy

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2010, 10:23:07 AM »
Lorraine, I've got some info on Catherine's (Thomas) family if you're interested - just let me know.
The flowers left thick at nightfall in the wood
This Eastertide call into mind the men,
Now far from home, who, with their sweethearts, should
Have gathered them and will do never again.

LEYTHER1

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Re: OLD PHOTO
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2010, 01:17:02 PM »
Hi Grimmy
Sadly, I have nothing on Catherine THomas other than her name and that she was married to my Great Granddad Robert Jones- She was born in Pemberton, Wigan in 1875.  I got the surnname Thomas after searching names for marriages of Robert Jones and a Catherine in 1892 (when the first Son William was born).  The only one I could find was Catherine Thomas....

If you could help in directing me in what to do next that would be great.  Would I need to send for the wedding cert to get her Fathers name?

Cheers
Lorraine