Author Topic: Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters  (Read 6537 times)

rugbyremembers

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Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters
« on: October 01, 2010, 07:13:03 PM »
Colonel Linda, currently away in Ypres, suggested I write to the forum.

Lt RJN Dale joined the Artists Rifles on Aug 14, commissioned into 9/Mancs in June 1915, and so by right should have gone out to gallipoli to k join them. Have scoured Ashton Pals website , but no mention so wondering if anyone can help.

He died in early 1918 as a balloon observer with the RFC in Italy. So I am trying to find out about his time with the Manchesters.

My interest will be explained by www.rugbyremembers.co.uk. Dale was a rugby player.

Grateful for any help

timberman

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Re: Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2010, 09:59:07 PM »
Hi rugbyremembers

Welcome to the forum.

I've seen the bit on Cross and Cockade forum about him. I've had a look in the Army list 1914-1918 and as yet been unable to find him in the 9th Bn Manchester regiment, but this is the entry for Soldiers That Died ???

Name: Robert Jacomb Norris Dale
Death Date: 31 Jan 1918
Rank: Lieutenant
Regiment: Manchester Regiment
Battalion: 9th Battalion (Territorial)
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Comments: And R F

and the CWGC entry

Name: DALE, ROBERT JACOMB NORRIS
Initials: R J N
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: Royal Flying Corps
Unit Text: 33rd Balloon Sect.
Age: 33
Date of Death: 31/01/1918
Additional information: Son of Bernard and Katherine Susan Dale, of Wimbledon, Surrey.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot 2. Row D. Grave 8.
Cemetery: GIAVERA BRITISH CEMETERY, ARCADE

On his Medal index card it says he qualified for the 1914 star with the 28th London Rifles on the 20/10/1914. Was commissioned on the 17 June 1915 not the 18th. Also there are two addresses  the first one crossed out, being 42 Abington Road Kensington W8 and Browne Stream Cottage Boscastle Nr Cornwall

I know you have some of the information but it may help other people when they try to help.

Timberman

rugbyremembers

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Re: Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 09:03:00 AM »
Many thanks. By way of specifying my search, for any other readers of this thread.

The CCI forumite was indeed helpful, but concentrated , understandably enough, on the balloon section (which is what I had asked about). He also provided two points at which Dale is listed as being with the Manchesters. I am looking to find out more about where he served. In the Ashton Pals site, there are many officers mentioned, but not him. the other precise knowldge I am after is the point at which he transferred to the Balloon Corps

An interesting discovery when the Colonel sent me the Medal Card was the Bourne Stream Boscastle address. Through another source, I found this was the address where his widow lived, so the medals would have been sent to her. I have never come across someone with so many addresses - I have up to seven different places he lived in.

Offline mack

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Re: Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 08:31:57 PM »
Lt dale was attatched to the 33rd balloon section from the 9th manchesters,he was killed while observing the enemy in a captured balloon,he served at gallipoli,egypt and italy
on 1st august 1918,his will was published which left his wibow,irene,rose dale the sum of £464.8s,she was residing at 71 cottenham park rd,wimbledon
he was the son of bernard+katherine,susan dale.
he was admitted to the bar in december 1908 and worked as a managing clerk for his fathers firm,dale+co[solicitors],75 cornhill,EC
he was baptised at st.marys,fulham on 3-1-1885
educated at haileybury college
he was mobilised on 4th august 1914 with the artist rifles,which suggests he was already serving before the war
his commission was granted on 18th june 1915.

mack ;D

rugbyremembers

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Re: Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 10:57:38 PM »
Mack, Many thanks, Lin said you were the man on the Manchesters.
Some fascinating detail there which I had not found before - his will, baptism, bar admission and his form. Can I ask the source?
He was with the Inns of Court OTC from 1911, which would explain the Rifles.
Do you have any references that place him in Gallipoli, Egypt etc? I know that's where the 1/9Bn were, but he is not mentioned anywhere on the Ashton Pals site and most of the officers are mentioned at some point.

Do you know when he was first attached to the RFC? After Egypt the Bn went to France, then Ypres. You don't mention them, so not sure where he would be in 1917, prior to Italy in December.

Sorry to ask all the questions, but you sound like a man who has the answers.
Many thanks
Stephen

Offline mack

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Re: Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 11:11:17 PM »
hiya stephen.
i cant find out when he was attatched to the RFC,the solicitors info comes from a book i have,called the record of service of solicitors+articled clerks 1914-18
he joined the inns of court on 19-1-1910 and left on 25-6-1912

mack ;D

rugbyremembers

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Re: Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2010, 07:36:02 AM »
Thanks Mack. I will go to Kew and see if the war diaries can cast any light

The Colonel

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Re: Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 06:29:38 PM »
I have provided rugbyremembers with this information. 

Extract from the 9th Battalion war diary:

13th/14th (2am) Sept. 1917. Battalion relieved by 1/4th East Lancs. 2nd Lt. DALE, Intelligence Officer to hospital sick.

Lt. Dale did not return to the 9th Battalion. He must have transferred to the RFC once he had recovered from his illness.

The Colonel.  ;)

timberman

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Re: Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2011, 06:07:33 PM »
Hi Stephen
This is in response to your request on the other topic.

http://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=5865.0

This may be going over old ground but a letter to the collage may be worth it?
With regards to a photo.

http://www.haileybury.com/honour/HAILEYBURY%201918%20-%209.htm

THE GREAT WAR
1918 & EARLY 1920s
OLD HAILEYBURIANS
WHO DIED IN THE SERVICE OF THEIR COUNTRY


ROBERT JACOMB NORRIS DALE
Lieutenant 33rd Balloon Sect., Royal Flying Corps
who died on Thursday 31 January 1918 . Age 33 .
Additional Information: Son of Bernard and Katherine Susan Dale, of Wimbledon, Surrey. Cemetery: GIAVERA BRITISH CEMETERY, ARCADE Italy Grave or Reference Panel Number: Plot 2. Row D. Grave 8.

 Haileybury Register 1862-1983 Lawrence 1900-02 born 13 November 1884

Timberman

rugbyremembers

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Re: Lt Robert Jacomb Norris Dale 9 Manchesters
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2011, 09:41:03 AM »
Many thanks. Haileybury proved a blank, but worth trying again in case any more photos have come to light. They use rugby photos on their online Roll of Honour but Dale does not feature (my assumption is that he was a half-decent player and made the XV, since he later played for Park albeit he did not make the 1sts)

An enigmatic character who left the law behind for career as an artist, painter, designer according to his attestation papers. The influence of his wife-to-be, a Greek classical dancer?