Author Topic: help from our lasses  (Read 17027 times)

slob

  • Guest
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2008, 06:34:29 PM »
the 1901 census shows Robert Warden with his mother Jane and, living with them, Frank Creegun.

Dave

slob

  • Guest
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2008, 06:44:20 PM »
here is the census entry
Jane Warden 34 
Albert Warden 10 
Robert Warden 8 
Willie Warden 6 
Frank Creegun 34 
Joseph McCarthy 32 
Andrew Bain 44

Willie appears to be William Edward.
1895 Warden William Edward     Bury  8c 622

Dave

Offline Wendi

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,696
  • Peeking into the past
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2008, 06:45:50 PM »
Well done Dave  ;D   ;D  I guess the Frank Creegun clinches it!!!

In Haywood at 23, Marlborough Street
RG13/3643 Folio 98 Page 15

Jane Warden Head 34 Wrightington
Albert son 10 Chorley
Robert son 8 Chorley
Wille son 6 Heywood
Andrew Bain Boarder 44 Cabinate Maker Glasgow
Joseph McCarthy Boarder 32 Sand paperer Manchester
Frank Creegun Boarder 34 Joiner Carp Manchester
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 09:04:54 AM by Wendi »
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline tonyrod

  • ****
  • Posts: 4,830
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2008, 08:05:01 PM »
OK  JUST SO WE ALL UNDERSTAND :-\ HAVE I GOT THIS RIGHT

FRANCIS CREEGAN BORN JUNE 1871  SALFORD DIED 1915 AGED 47 AND MARRIED ELIZABETH HIGHAM PARENTS  TO       FRANCIS  BORN 1892 KIA 1916 AGED 24.
FRANCIS [-FRANK-]CREEGAN  BORN JUNE 1869 SALFORD WAS ON 1901 CENSUS WITH THE WARDEN'S        ;D
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 08:18:51 PM by tonyrod »

Offline Wendi

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,696
  • Peeking into the past
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2008, 08:41:11 PM »
Almost !!!

Francis Creegan born Salford registered in 3rd Qtr of 1892 and appears in the household of his Uncle on the 1901 Census RG13/3730 Folio 6 Page 4

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

slob

  • Guest
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2008, 09:22:46 PM »
Francis  CREEGAN  born 1868 Salford, son of Francis and Ann
married Elizabeth Higham in 1891
with Jane Warden in 1901, and William Edward Warden, and Robert Warden.

Francis  CREEGAN  born 1892 Salford, probably son of Francis and Elizabeth
with his Uncle Thomas in 1901

Elizabeth Creegan nee Higham died 1894


Francis  CREEGAN  Jun 1871 Salford, son of James and Margaret, died 1889


Dave

Offline Wendi

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,696
  • Peeking into the past
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2008, 09:30:26 AM »
Morning ! & Hi Tony

FRANCIS [-FRANK-]CREEGAN  BORN JUNE 1869 SALFORD WAS ON 1901 CENSUS WITH THE WARDEN'S        ;D

It's an interesting study of social history of the time, that names, the spelling of them etc was treated in a completely different attitude prior to WW1. 

I think, for the sake of this exercise we have to assume Frank & Francis are one of the same, as are Jane & Janet  ::)  They go on to marry sometime after 1901 (as Frank was also a widow at the time of the census in 1901) and Jane's sons take on the Creegan surname in no formal way.

Up comes WW1, by the end of which self identity has become an issue.  Mothers trying to prove their sons are under age to be abroad, or/and have enlisted with an alias, don't have copies of birth certificates, and indeed some can not afford to obtain them, to prove to the authorities what they are saying ! 

Voting age also becomes an issue about the same time, so William and Robert choose/are forced to use their legal names.

William & Robert are brothers.  Francis is their cousin-in-law (if there is such a thing !!!) but not a blood rellie - I think LOL

Nice one Mack  ;D

Wendi  :)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 10:45:56 AM by Wendi »
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline tonyrod

  • ****
  • Posts: 4,830
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2008, 10:23:24 AM »
HI WENDY, yes i found the deaths on freebmd i did not catch on francis and frank being the same person though i did know frank was short for francis
he died in 1915 aged 47,[on freebmd] and the cost of a birth certifacate was 3s/7p i know this from my great grandmother writing to get my granddad out in 1915,,and mack ;D ;D ;D  no comment  tony

Offline Wendi

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,696
  • Peeking into the past
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2008, 10:44:41 AM »
William & Robert are brothers.  Francis is their cousin - I think LOL

Ooops ! NO HE'S NOT Francis is not related to them by blood at all  ::) I'll change my previous post.

3/7d in todays money is about £9.87, but I think it would have hurt more to spend a tenner then  ;D

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline tonyrod

  • ****
  • Posts: 4,830
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2008, 11:08:52 AM »
  LITTLE UPDATE ,POSSABLE DEATH OF ALBERT WARDEN AGED 10 IN JUNE 1901
FATHER  2 POSSABLE'S  ARNOLD HENRY  MAR 1892 AGED 24
THOMAS,  JUNE 1900 AGED 34 ALL BURY, NOT 100% SURE.
I CAN FIND NO MARRAGE FOR FRANCIS [FRANK] AND JANE[JANET]

Offline Wendi

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,696
  • Peeking into the past
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2008, 11:13:05 AM »
Hi tony !

How are you searching ?  It's possible that it has not been transcribed yet......

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Offline tonyrod

  • ****
  • Posts: 4,830
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2008, 11:30:31 AM »
   JUST FOUND POSSABLE MARRAGE OF JANE DAWBER IN MARCH 1890
TO THOMAS WARDEN   CHORLEY 8E 621,   FITS IN WITH DEATH OF THOMAS
IN  1900 ONLY LINK IS JANE AND BIRTH OF ALBERT 1901,  BUT WITH OUT CERTIFACATES YOU CANNOT BE 100% I AM SEARCHING FREEBMD ROOTSWEB  AND LANCASHIRE BMD,                                                                                      UPDATE THOMAS WARDEN MARRIED JANE DAWBER 1 JAN 1890 ST GEORGES CHURCH
CHORLEY,   TONY
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 11:55:48 AM by tonyrod »

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,398
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2008, 12:37:43 PM »
would it be safe to say that francis is the step brother of robert+william.
mack
ps thanks for your expertise on this

Offline tonyrod

  • ****
  • Posts: 4,830
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2008, 01:20:04 PM »
only if francis married jane not to sure if he had to adopt them  but going by there ages when he moved in they could have been calling him dad anyway to shut up the gossips,
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 01:44:06 PM by tonyrod »

slob

  • Guest
Re: help from our lasses
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2008, 03:51:21 PM »
It wasn't uncommon for people to call themselves man and wife when they weren't married, I have a few in my family background.
I think the records are pretty much complete upto 1920 and it doesn't look like they married.

Dave