Author Topic: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )  (Read 10397 times)

liverpool annie

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Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« on: December 02, 2007, 05:01:33 AM »


This isn't my area at all ..... but I thought I might put out a few feelers ......  ::)

On the outbreak of the last war, Fr John Capistran Moran and Fr Camillus (probably Arthur) Grugeon went into the RAF as chaplains, and Fr John Torsney and Fr Aidan Jackson, into the army. Father Aiden was taken prisoner in Singapore and spent three years in captivity

I had a look at the fepow community site run by Ron Taylor !

www.fepow-community.org.uk

I also looked at COFEPOW (Children of Far East Prisoners of War )

www.cofepow.org.uk

But I was told to be prepared though - as it was understood that priests were treated worse by their captors than other prisoners and suffered terribly - can anybody tell me anything ?

Thanking you in advance !

Annie  :)

Offline tonyrod

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2007, 10:18:16 AM »
hi Annie, i have emailed a relative in Canada who was  a POW WITH THE 2ND LOYAL LANCS, to see if we can get any info first hand ,  i will let you know . tony

slob

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2007, 02:33:31 PM »
There are Japanese records of POWs at Kew.

Dave

liverpool annie

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2007, 03:15:03 PM »


Thank you Tony !

I hope it doesn't bring up bad memories for him ! but just a quick glance it's a very complex subject .... and I know nothing about WW2 !!

Annie  :-\

liverpool annie

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 03:16:56 PM »


Thanks Dave .... but I don't know how to access WW2 POW's at TNA ... I've only ever done WW1 ... do you have any tips ??

Annie  :)

slob

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2007, 03:52:16 PM »
you probably know more than me, I've never been to Kew.
from the website, search for pow and you get:

War Office: Japanese Registers of Allied Prisoners of War and Civilian Internees held in Camps in Singapore, Second World War WO 367

This series comprises three registers which record the names of some 13,500 allied prisoners of war and civilian internees of British and other nationalities. The registers give minimal information about each prisoner, apparently compiled for the Japanese camp administration although the majority of the information is given in English.
The registers refer to camps numbered 1-4; the identity of these had not previously been established but it is now believed that these refer to:
No 1 PoW camp - Changi
No 2 PoW camp - Serangoon Road Camp
No 3 PoW camp - River Valley Road Camp
No 4 PoW camp - Adam Road Camp.
Across each two-page spread, information in respect of each prisoner is given under the following headings:
On the left-hand page:
Name;
Registration card no;
Rank;
Unit;
Occupation (service or previous civilian).
On the right-hand page:
Registration card no (repeated);
Dispersal. (The greater part of the movement revealed here is noted as 'Overland' at various dates in 1943. Sometimes the reference is 'Overseas', 'Rtd' which means Returned (e.g. to Changi), or 'Died' with a date and - usually - 'Thai' [land]. There are other references to River Valley Road and Sime Road camps etc).

Pity they're not online

Dave


liverpool annie

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2007, 04:11:49 PM »


I've never been there either ! .... if I didn't have "the man about town" Mr Roy .... I'd be up the creek ( as they say !!  ::) )

I'll check it out and see what I can see ... thanks Dave !

Annie  :)

liverpool annie

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2007, 04:28:11 PM »


I just took a look Dave - and they have index cards too ! .... oh my !

This series comprises some 50,000 pre-printed cards of uncertain provenance. They appear to have been compiled by a central Japanese authority which has not been identified. There has been some degree of Allied assistance in compiling, maintaining etc.
The index cards record (with certain exceptions, consistently) the following details:
Camp (may be subject to change due to transfer) (In Japanese);
Name;
Nationality (In English, or English and Japanese);
Rank (In English, or English and Japanese);
Place of Capture (In English, or English and Japanese);
Father's name;
Place of origin;
Destination of report (assumed to be report of capture, sent to next of kin at address given);
'No' i.e. Prisoner's Camp Number (established by comparison with other records) (May be subject to change due to transfer) (In Japanese);
Date of birth;
Unit and service number;
Date of capture (In English, or English and Japanese);
Mother's name;
Occupation (In English, or English and Japanese);
Remarks;
Other information (on reverse) which may include medical details. (In Japanese, possibly partly translated).
Diagonal red lines across some cards appear to indicate that the prisoners were dead.
Whilst for Prisoner's Camp Number the relevance of a number has been established, the significance of other numbers or letter/number combinations has not been established.
Arrangement   
All those cards marked in red along the top right edge are also stamped in the top left corner with a rectangular box marked with four Japanese characters which have been interpreted simply as 'File Reference'. The boxes contain sequential numbers 1-11,838, and it may be that these cards were originally maintained separately.

liverpool annie

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2007, 09:04:15 PM »


Just in case anybody else is looking up the same subject - I came across this !!

http://www.mansell.com/pow_resources/camplists/rg331-box%201321-jap%20pow%20camps.htm

Annie  :-\

Offline harribobs

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2007, 12:54:33 AM »
re japanese pow cards,


we have these cards  ;D
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

liverpool annie

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2007, 02:04:54 AM »


Except I can't get them can I ??  :P

Offline harribobs

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2007, 10:39:49 AM »
roy has photo'd some of them i should say, i did have a couple but i can't find them now

when roy gets back i'm sure he have a look, there isn't a great deal of info on them (in english) and i'm afraid my japanese will only stretch to numbers
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline mack

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2007, 04:00:48 AM »
according to my little trainee princess[the missus]i speak fluent japanese when ime ****** ;D ;D
mack

Offline tonyrod

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2007, 09:11:45 AM »
hi annie,no word from canada as yet . tony

liverpool annie

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Re: Manchester men ... not regiment ( I don't think !! )
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2007, 06:18:41 PM »


Thanks for the update Tony ... but don't worry too much about it OK .... I understand if there is no reply !!  :-X

I was surprised at the amount of information available ... just not what I'm looking for I'm afraid !!  :-\

Annie