Author Topic: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed  (Read 28841 times)

migky

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2010, 05:13:20 PM »
Ernest's address was 3 Walmer street Gorton. Manchester. The family was at this address 1911 & at 23 Ainsworth street Gorton 1901
This is the same address his mother died at.
His father died at 14 Pingot Avenue, Wythenshawe. Manchester
Below is a picture of Walmer street and  another one if you click on the links.
Number 3 Walmer street is at the bottom of the picture where the motor car is.


Click for second image of Walmer street Gorton

Funny, years later and there is still a car at that address  ;D
Click for car at number 3

Migky  ;)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 05:31:38 PM by Migky »

plaything

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2010, 06:46:12 PM »
That's excellant! I do live local and have visited walmer St and the memorial in Gorton that Ernest is listed on. We also regularly visit Loius & sara's grave. I have most of the information you mentioned (it took me a lot longer to get it than you did though!) The pictures you supplied of Walmer st are fab, I have not seen these before, I have a earlier picture from the turn of the century so I am really pleased with these new ones. I am probably next going to try and get a copy of the war diaries from 1st to 5th sept, I have all of augusts but they are not much help. Thanks for all you hard work!

migky

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2010, 08:07:24 PM »
Same street as in the black & white photo, but some years later

Offline Wendi

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2010, 09:39:49 PM »
Hi and Welcome to our Forum !

We also regularly visit Loius & sara's grave.

That's just so nice !!! Well done you !!

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

timberman

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2010, 01:38:32 AM »
Hi Neil

Dont know if this helps, but I've found 61 casualty from the 29th Aug to 5th of Sept

BERNAFAY WOOD BRITISH CEMETERY, MONTAUBAN, Somme, France

CHAMBERLAIN, Private, E, 18837, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916.
Grave Ref. C. 16.

WRIGHT, Private, J, 19028, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916. Grave
Ref. B. 16.

DELVILLE WOOD CEMETERY, LONGUEVAL, Somme, France

BROWN, Private, G, 19832, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. Killed in action 29 August
1916. Age 27. Son of John and Agnes Brown; husband of Emily Brown, of 61, Boundary
St. West, Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester. Grave Ref. VII. M. 4.

GREENWOOD, Private, J, 19130, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. Killed in action 29
August 1916. Grave Ref. XI. N. 10.

HAWES, Private, A, 19836, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916. Grave Ref.
XXXII. C. 8.

HOLLAND, Lance Corporal, A, 19809, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916.
Grave Ref. VI. I. 7.

PACEY, Private, J H, 18675, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. Killed in action 29 August
1916. Age 26. Son of the late Samuel and Elizabeth Pacey, of Manchester. Grave Ref.
VIII. G. 4.

PARKER, Private, WILLIAM THEODORE, 32509, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment.
Killed in action 29 August 1916. Age 39. Son of Mrs. Elizabeth Parker, of 39, Edge Lane,
Chorlton-cum-Hardy, Manchester. Grave Ref. V. B. 10.

PRICE, Private, T, 18971, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. Killed in action 29 August
1916. Grave Ref. III. K. 9.

SENIOR, Private, W J, 28327, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916. Grave
Ref. V. K. 6.

SMITH, Lance Corporal, WILLIAM, 19891, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August
1916. Husband of Mary Ellen Smith, of 16, Herne St., Bradford, Manchester. Grave Ref.
V. B. 6.

VENABLES, Private, W, 19023, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916. Grave
Ref. VIII. G. 3.

WOOD, Lance Corporal, C, 26122, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916.
Grave Ref. III. L. 5.

DERNANCOURT COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION, Somme, France

COTGREAVE, Private, THOMAS, 19356, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. Died of
wounds 4 September 1916. Age 22. Son of Harriet Cotgreave, of 298, Leftwich Green,
Northwich, Cheshire. Grave Ref. II. D. 12.


HEILLY STATION CEMETERY, MERICOURT-L'ABBE, Somme, France

BERRY, Lance Corporal, J J, 18525, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 2 September 1916.
Age 25. Grave Ref. IV. B. 37.

LA NEUVILLE BRITISH CEMETERY, CORBIE, Somme, France

TOMLINSON, Private, RICHARD, 12611, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 5
September 1916. Age 24. Husband of Lucy Tomlinson, of 11, Drinkwater St.,
Harpurhey, Manchester. Grave Ref. II. B. 67.

QUARRY CEMETERY, MONTAUBAN, Somme, France

PARKER, Private, H, 35237, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916. Grave
Ref. Sp. Mem.

SERRE ROAD CEMETERY No.2, Somme, France

BIRTLES, Private, HERBERT, 19831, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916.
Age 34. Husband of Martha Darlington (formerly Birtles), of 23, Ella St., Harpurhey,
Manchester. Grave Ref. XXV. M. 14.

TAYLOR, Private, JOHN, 34680, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916.
Grave Ref. XXIV. H. 1.

ST. SEVER CEMETERY, ROUEN, Seine-Maritime, France

BOOTH, Private, JOHN, 18795, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. Died of wounds 4
September 1916. Age 21. Son of William and Ruth Booth, of Gorton, Manchester. Grave
Ref. B. 24. 11.

THIEPVAL MEMORIAL, Somme, France

AUSTIN, Private, WILLIAM ROBERT, 3091, 2nd/6th Bn. attd. 21st Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 30 August 1916. Age 25. Son of Beatrice Annie Palmer (formerly Austin), of
63, Brook St., Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester, and the late Joseph Austin. Pier and
Face 13 A and 14 C.

BARLOW, Private, GILBERT, 251716, 2nd/6th Bn. attd. 21st Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 29 August 1916. Age 20. Son of John Henry and Linda Barlow. Pier and Face
13 A and 14 C.

BARON, Private, MARK, 19885, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916. Age
21. Son of Joseph and Mary Ellen Baron, of 3, Romiley St., Queen's Park, Manchester.
Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

BATES, Private, WILLIAM, 26083, "C" Coy. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29
August 1916. Age 17. Son of Margaret Ann Bates, of 47, Great Egerton St., Stockport,
and the late William Henry Bates. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

BEALE, Lance Corporal, JAMES, 26245, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August
1916. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

CLARK, Lance Corporal, THOMAS FREDERICK, 19351, 21st Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 29 August 1916. Age 24. Son of Tom and Esther Clark, of 77, Church St.,
Harpurhey, Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

COOPER, Private, THOMAS HERBERT, 3206, 2nd/6th Bn. attd. 21st Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 29 August 1916. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

COXEY, Private, GEORGE, 19094, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916.
Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

CUNLIFFE, Captain, JOHN LEONARD, "A" Coy. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 4
September 1916. Age 28. Son of W. J. Cunliffe, of Hatton Fold, Brooklands; husband of
Dorothy Cunliffe, of Kilmorey, Brooklands, Cheshire. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

CURRAN, Private, OWEN HENRY, 26819, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August
1916. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

FITZGERALD, Private, ROBERT, 18861, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August
1916. Age 17. Son of James and Elizabeth Fitzgerald, of 8, Wood St., Chapel St., Salford,
Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

FLANAGAN, Private, JAMES JOSEPH, 18862, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29
August 1916. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

FOLEY, Private, THOMAS, 19914, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916.
Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

FREEMAN, Private, GEORGE HERBERT, 19116, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29
August 1916. Age 20. Son of Herbert and Sarah Ellen Freeman, of IO, Ronald St.,
Clayton, Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

GOULD, Corporal, ERNEST, 250526, 2nd/6th Bn. attd. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment.
28 August 1916. Age 20. Son of Henry William Gould, of 168, Swinton Hall Rd.,
Swinton, Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

HARRIS, Lieutenant, AUBREY, "A" Coy. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 4
September 1916. Age 22. Son of William and Mary Elizabeth Harris, of Oak Bank Villa,
72, Alexandra Rd., Wrexham. B.A. (Hons.) Manchester University. Senior language
master (Merchiston, Edinburgh). Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

HART, Private, FRANK BROOKS, 18603, "A" Coy. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29
August 1916. Age 26. Son of Mary L. Hart, of 10, Beech Range, Levenshulme,
Manchester, and the late Frank Brooks Hart. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

HENSHAW, Private, THOMAS, 18611, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August
1916. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

HOATH, Private, MARTIN, 4937, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916. Age
36. Husband of Mary Elizabeth Hoath, of 41, Princess St., Bradford, Manchester. Pier
and Face 13 A and 14 C.

I'ANSON, Corporal, JAMES, 19416, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916.
Age 24. Son of John and Martha I'Anson, of 122, Crosscliffe St., Moss Side, Manchester.
Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

LEACH, Private, JAMES, 27281, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916. Age
21. Son of Samuel and Eliza Leach, of 291, Featherstall Rd. North, Oldham. Pier and
Face 13 A and 14 C.

LOGAN, Private, WILLIAM JOHN, 26754, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. Killed in
action at Delville Wood 29 August 1916. Age 20. Son of Mr. and Mrs. J. Logan, of 37,
Richmond St., Newton Heath, Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

McCOMISH, Private, H, 26037, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916. Pier
and Face 13 A and 14 C.

McDERMOTT, Private, SAMUEL, 19190, M M, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29
August 1916. Age 21. Son of Mrs. Mary A. McDermott, of 9, Dalton Terrace, Hulme,
Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

McINTYRE, Private, STEPHEN, 19451, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August
1916. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

MELLOR, Lance Corporal, EDWARD, 18665, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29
August 1916. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

PARKINSON, Lance Serjeant, FRANK, 18678, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29
August 1916. Age 31. Son of the late Mr. Thomas Litherland Parkinson; husband of
Sarah Elizabeth Parkinson, of 25, Bridge St., Stalybridge, Cheshire. Pier and Face 13 A
and 14 C.

PEARSON, Private, DAVID, 14685, 2nd/6th Bn. attd. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment.
29 August 1916. Age 22. Brother of Mr. H. Pearson, of 65, Kippax St., Moss Side,
Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

PERCIVAL, Corporal, HARRY, 18684, "A" Coy. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29
August 1916. Age 26. Son of Amos and Mary Percival, of Broughton, Manchester. Pier
and Face 13 A and 14 C.

PLAYFOOT, Private, ERNEST LEWIS, 18689, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29
August 1916. Age 24. Son of Louis Playfoot, of 3, Walmer St., Gorton, Manchester, and
the late Sarah Ann Playfoot. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

REDFORD, Private, HAROLD, 3220, 2nd/6th Bn. attd. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment.
5 September 1916. Age 19. Son of Harry Redford, of 14, Cecil Rd., Stretford;
Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

REEVES, Serjeant, ROBERT, 19837, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916.
Age 24. Son of John and Elizabeth Ellen Reeves, of Higher Chatterton Farm, Stubbins,
Ramsbottom, Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

RENSHAW, Private, JOHN, 19638, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916.
Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

ROWLES, Private, JOE, 18982, "B" Coy. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August
1916. Age 22. Son of the late Edward and Elizabeth Rowles. Pier and Face 13 A and 14
C.

SCOBLE, Private, HENRY, 18716, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 5 September 1916.
Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

STEVENSON, Lance Corporal, ALEXANDER, 19004, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment.
29 August 1916. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

TUNSTALL, Private, HAROLD, 3579, 2nd/6th Bn. attd. 21st Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 29 August 1916. Age 23. Son of Thomas James and Sarah Matilda Tunstall,
of 16, Mowbray Avenue, Sedgley Park, Prestwich, Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and
14 C.

WHITAKER, Private, HAROLD, 4511, 2nd/6th Bn. attd. 21st Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 29 August 1916. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

WHITE, Private, JAMES, 18757, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August 1916. Age
21. Son of Peter and Annie White; husband of Mary Ellen Coyle (formerly White), of
139, Tipping St., Ardwick, Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

WILKINSON, Private, ALBERT, 19296, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29 August
1916. Age 22. Son of Mrs. Elizabeth E. Wilkinson, of 171, Tipping St., Ardwick,
Manchester. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

WILSON, Private, WILLIAM, 4647, 2nd/6th Bn. attd. 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment.
4 September 1916. Age 19. Son of Mrs. F. I. Wilson, of 43, Higher Ardwick, Manchester,
and the late W. Wilson. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

WRIGHT, Private, CHARLES STEWART, 17806, 21st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 29
August 1916. Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C.

Timberman

Offline mack

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2010, 11:28:43 AM »
That's excellant! I do live local and have visited walmer St and the memorial in Gorton that Ernest is listed on. We also regularly visit Loius & sara's grave. I have most of the information you mentioned (it took me a lot longer to get it than you did though!) The pictures you supplied of Walmer st are fab, I have not seen these before, I have a earlier picture from the turn of the century so I am really pleased with these new ones. I am probably next going to try and get a copy of the war diaries from 1st to 5th sept, I have all of augusts but they are not much help. Thanks for all you hard work!
albert was only lodging at 50 halstead st,bolton,thats where he enlisted from on 16th aug 1915,he was wounded twice in 1917,once on 26th july and again on 26th october
he joined the loyal north lancs regt at the depot and was posted to the 4/5th battalion in france on 13-2-17
christened at ardsley,yorks on 24-6-1896
married mary margerison in manchester in 1922
died in manchester in 1953,aged 57

mack ;D

Offline mack

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2010, 12:50:19 PM »
Lt aubrey harris was killed on 4th sept 1916,he was buried in delville wood,but his grave was later lost in the heavy fighting,he was a colleague of colonels elstob[16th batt]+fearenside[17th batt]all three were masters at merchiston college,edinburgh before the war,he was a very experienced officer,and had been the 21st batts bombing officer since the beginning

mack ;D

Devil Wood

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2010, 10:21:22 PM »
This mystery of the 29th August 1916 and the 21st Batt has intrigued me for many years. My grandfather Martin HOATH was my centre of attraction. He went down on this day south of Delville Wood with the 21st. But he arrived in France with the 11th after service in Galipolli and Egypt. I have never been able to trace why he was with the 21st.
If you look back in the annalls of this group you will see I have raised these issues for discussion.
My grandma told me the 11th arrived in France and they thought they were in England.
The 29th August in the  history of the 21st dos'nt get a mention, the addition at the end was a later addition.
I have been advised that at this time because of the high losses on the Somme a blanket of secrecy was brought down on casualties and reports from the front and records so has not to interfere with morale on the home front. Newspapers  cooperated with this strategy and did'nt print the full lists of previous months.
I have a copy of the divisional diary for the 29th and all they were interested in was the slowness of trench digging being carried out by Irish Regiments. There is a possibility our 21st casualties were caused in carrying out this work with the Irish as a prelude to the attack on Ginchy. As the war was primarily an artiilary war the slowness of the work was possibly because of the shelling but the battalion headquarters were a couple of miles to the rear in a quarry and the divisional headquarters probably 20 miles away.
Good luck with your enqiries. Barney

plaything

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2010, 04:00:02 AM »
Thanks, all this information is of great help. What I have found is the more I look into this the more questions I am left with! Word passed down through the family suggested that Ernest  was shot by a snipper whilst helping to carry a stretcher, but I do not know how reliable this information is.

plaything

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2011, 11:53:43 AM »
Update! Have just uncovered an old photograph of Ernest, written on the back in faint pencil can be read 'Killed on 4th sept 1916 Delville Wood. For me this closes the case, as I thought ernest was killed on 4th September and not on 29th August as shown on CWGC and SDGW. As discusses several times this is probably the case for most of the other casualties that are listed as being killed on 29th Aug 1916.Thanks for everyones help in this matter.

Offline JWRH

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2013, 01:25:27 PM »
I think this may be a couple of years too late for 6th City, but may be helpful to others looking into to the 29 August / 4 September issue.

I have seen letter from Lt Aubrey Harris' parents to the Warden of Hulme Hall, where Aubrey studied at Manchester University:

"Lieut J H Miller writing on Sept 6th says: My very best pal, your son Aubrey was killed with a shell on the evening of the fourth of September. We had gone forward together to find Captain Cunliffe and his company to discover what the situation was like. I left them together and returned to the Brigade with what news we had gathered. He remained behind doing more than his duty in helping Capt Cunliffe. Two hours later some of his men came back and reported to me that both he and Capt Cunliffe had been killed instantaneously by the same shell. The news quite broke me - I pray that you may be able to bear it

If anyone knows whether 6th City published an article about this, I would be very interested to read it.

Plaything: by chance, I was in Gorton seeing my brother and his family last November. When walking my nephew home from his school we stopped at the Gorton war memorial. I saw your wooden poppy cross laid in memory of Ernest Playfoot. I noticed that the date of death and regiment was the same as Lt Harris and took a photo. I was quite surprised when I saw your posts on here!

Offline themonsstar

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 09:19:53 AM »
Thank you for the posting the research JWRH


Roy

Rammylad

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2014, 09:18:43 PM »
If I may add to this thread, one of the men I am researching, Sgt. Robert Reeves, from Ramsbottom is listed by C.W.C.G. as died 29th August 1916. Having read this thread it would appear that the bombing raid on 4th September ties in with his obituary in the local newspaper, which goes on to state "He died like a soldier, right in the forefront of the battle, leading his patrol on a very difficult piece of work." Rather than being killed during a relief.

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment 29th August 1916, mystery, help needed
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2014, 03:42:26 PM »
Greetings,

Regarding your query concerning the 7th Div.History (Atkinson 1927). For the period you mention there are 10 pages in respect of the Ginchy attacks in which the 21st Mcrs. are mentioned 6 times.

As regards the other Manchester battalions involved the following are mentioned:-

22nd Bn -3 times
20th Bn  - 4 times (Some criticism. Casualties 11 officers & 264 OR's.)
24th Bn- Special mention.

You may think it appropriate to get a loan copy from your library.   Best regards. PhilipG.

LouiseR

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Quote
Hi There.
      I have these photos which may be of use to you, I thought they had been posted on the site but I can't find them. This is Cpl James I'anson who fell on the 29th august 1916 and some of his pals, he was in the 21st Bnt.   Cheers.   Johnno
 
Are there any names of these men listed on the back of the photo?  Since discovering this forum, I just found out that my Grandmother's brother, Ernest Lewis Playfoot DIA during this war.  Before, I didn't even know he existed.  Would like to know if one of these men in the photo is him.

Thx, Louise
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 11:04:50 PM by harribobs »