Author Topic: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment  (Read 9608 times)

Xenophon

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Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« on: May 14, 2009, 06:17:28 PM »
Hello All,

I've just joined the group today and I'm hoping the forum members can help me find information on the following soldier:

Pte James Harthen, serial no. 2545, Manchester Regiment (during the First World War).

In particular I'm hoping to find out the following:

What Battalion did he serve in?

Is there any way I can find out his date of birth? (This would help to confirm/disprove if this man was my great-grandfather's brother)

His Medal Card records that he was also with the RAMC (serial no. 205506) and The Labour Corps (serial no. 385372), can anyone help me discover why this was? 

If this man was my great-grandfather's brother he would have been about 41-42 years of age at the outbreak of the war in 1914 which I think would have made him too old to fight.  Was he found out and moved away from frontline duties?

Any help, pointers, or suggestions for further reading would be most gratefully received.  Thank you for your attention.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 08:01:30 PM by harribobs »

Offline harribobs

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 08:02:32 PM »
hi xenophon

and welcome to the forum

i'll move this over to the great war section and we'll see if we can help you

cheers


chris
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline harribobs

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2009, 12:13:02 AM »
well i don't think it would have made him too old to fight, in fact he went abroad on the 10th September 1914

so i think we are looking at a regular soldier here, possibly a reservist called back to the colours

the theatre of war says 3, but i am not convinced that is correct for that time

chris



 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 12:15:58 AM by harribobs »
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
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Offline tonyrod

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2009, 07:36:47 AM »
HI EXNOPHON,        and welcome ,  but like chris i think he was a regular and reservist his number  is regular army and  theatre of war  3  was Egypt
could be he was in the 11 bn  but i  am new to researching the man reg ,and stand corrected if wrong,
good luck with your search.    tonyrod
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 07:39:07 AM by tonyrod »

Offline themonsstar

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2009, 07:57:25 AM »
The date does match with the 42nd East Lancs Div going overseas, the 11th Bn did not moved overseas until 30/6/15. You would need to look at his medal rolls 14/15 Star & BWM & VM, as it may give you his Manch Regt Bn.

Were did he come from in Manchester as this may tell you his nearest Manch Regt Bn.

Offline mack

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2009, 09:32:19 AM »
i think hes from the 1/9th batt,but cant be certain,his service number,falls in the batch of men,who brought the battalion,up to its war strenghth.
there was a james harthen of 133 moss st,ashton,he would have been about 41yrs old in 1914,wifes name,martha,he resided with his mother emma,and his younger brother,joseph+wife elizabeth

we need the colonel on this one

mack ;D

Offline tonyrod

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2009, 10:19:40 AM »
ok , i need a little help on this ,
THIS IS FROM THE 11 BN ON THE MAIN SITE,
3, The new battalions will be raised as additional battalions of the regiments of Infantry of the Line, and will be given numbers following consecutively on the existing battalions of their regiments. They will be further distinguished by the word �Service� after the number....


The 11th (SERVICE) BN., MANCHESTER REGIMENT, was brigaded with the

8th (SERVICE) BN. NORTHUMBERLAND FUSILIERS,
9th (SERVICE) BN. LANCASHIRE FUSILIERS,
8th (SERVICE) BN. DUKE OF WELLINGTON'S (WEST RIDING REGIMENT ) [subsequently altered to 5th DORSETS]
These four battalions constituting the 34th INFANTRY BRIGADE.
Gallipoli
this soldier see number was,
Regiment/Service: Manchester Regiment
Unit Text: 11th Bn.
Date of Death: 04/11/1915
Service No: 2504
and  found 3 other's with same  2545 number in the man reg
 so they would have been in other battalions correct. tonyrod
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 06:49:48 PM by timberman »

Offline harribobs

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2009, 11:44:52 AM »
ok , i need a little help on this ,
this soldier see number was,
Regiment/Service: Manchester Regiment
Unit Text: 11th Bn.
Date of Death: 04/11/1915
Service No: 2504
and  found 3 other's with same  2545 number in the man reg
 so they would have been in other battalions correct. tonyrod

not necessarily so, the service number would have been recycled within the regiment at a later date
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

The Colonel

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2009, 01:31:41 PM »
The 9th battalion left Southampton for Egypt on the 9th September 1914. They landed at Alexandria on the 25th.
Dates on the MICs for some 9th battalion soldiers are recorded as 9.9.14 Egypt (3) and 10.9.14 4A 

In the enlistments I have for the 9th battalion, James Harthen is not listed. The lists I have were published in the newspaper and are not conclusive. However, there is a J Ardern of E Company listed, dated 1st July 1914. I am wondering whether the newspaper made a mistake at the time with the surname Ardern, perhaps it should read Harthen?

The Colonel.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 03:38:07 PM by The Colonel »

Offline harribobs

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 09:16:43 PM »
i can't see any J Ardern in the Manchesters on the NA site, so i think you may well be right!
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline kemrobson

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2009, 11:08:02 AM »
Found a John Ardern 3172 - would he be in the 9th?
Researching:-
John Robert Robson 1/8th Manchester Regt 1915/16
Joe Cookson 12th Manchester Regt KIA 3 December 1915
Old Boys of William Hulme's Grammar School

Offline mack

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2009, 12:07:06 PM »
Found a John Ardern 3172 - would he be in the 9th?
no keith.
hes one of yours
3172 sgt john ardern
7 the approach,whalley range[wife mary]
enlisted 3-10-14
aged 35
cotton buyer
born.3-3-82
member of the rucksack club,fell walker+rock climber
2/8th manchesters
drafted to the 1/8th batt at gallipoli,on 1-7-15
contracted chronic bronchitis,invalided home,on 14-5-16
posted to the 68th welsh div at yarmouth,and transferred to the 5th cheshires[sgt 242703]
discharged medically unfit,on 21-8-17

mack ;D
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 12:10:44 PM by mack »

tisgrannie

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2009, 01:25:35 PM »
1901 with Harthen Family listing.

Offline kemrobson

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2009, 09:52:51 PM »
Thanks Mack
Another one for the database
Regards
Keith
Researching:-
John Robert Robson 1/8th Manchester Regt 1915/16
Joe Cookson 12th Manchester Regt KIA 3 December 1915
Old Boys of William Hulme's Grammar School

Offline mack

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Re: Pte James Harthen, 2545, Manchester Regiment
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2009, 03:26:37 AM »
Thanks Mack
Another one for the database
Regards
Keith
hiya keith.
before he went to gallipoli,he was capable,and often walked 20 to 30 miles a day,after a few weeks on gallipoli,he was reduced to a physical wreck,i think he was one of the last mancheters to leave gallipoli,he states that he could not walk any further,so they left him behind,he was then picked up by the medical officer of a artillery unit,he was flattened by a artillery shell,while being evacuated to one of the ships.

mack