Author Topic: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment  (Read 10278 times)

Applebygypsy

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20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« on: December 13, 2008, 08:25:44 PM »
Hi Everyone,
I hope you can help me find out about a couple of my relations in the Manchester Regiment ;D. 20574 Sgt James Irlam of the 22 Bn Manchester Regiment. He was born on 24 Aug 1886 and died at the Somme in 1916. His wife was Adelina Victoria Jackson [sister of 5041 Sgt Fred Jackson of 1st Bn Manchester Regiment]. More on him later. Sgt Irlam has no known grave but his name is recorded on the Thiepval memorial North France [Pier and Face 13A and 14C]. Can anybody help me with any of his previous history and his service record, campaign medals etc and hopefully more details of where in the Somme he was killed :). To add to the interest has anyone any idea what happened to 5041 Sgt Fred Jackson [3042 on rejoining on 14 Sep 1914]. He was medically discharged as no longer physically fit with severe varicose veins on 14 Sep 1916. I know he was invalided from Salonica with inflamed veins and ulcers of the left leg and foot causing him intense pain. I can find no record after this date. He was granted the 15 Star on Roll H/1/29B page 26. Under the remarks column is Redt [1743 KR 1912] 8149/adv or j. Can anybody tell me in Laymans term what it means ;). Researching family geneology is a painstaking but rewarding hobby ::). The military involvement adds to it, though at times the Military terminology can really frustrate you. I would be obliged for you help on the above matters. Knowing me though this is just the start as I have many Jacksons in the tree and as it is one of the most common names I could see me coming back for more 8).
Applebygypsy

Offline harribobs

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2008, 09:24:31 PM »
Hi Applebygypsy

James was a volunteer in the 22nd (7th City Pals) battalion, he was a civilian first and foremost, volunteered around November 1914, he trained in the UK (up at Morecambe for a while and then Grantham) he went over to France in November 1915

he would have been entitled to the 1915 star, the british war and the victory medal

here is his record from 'soldiers died in the great war'

chris

“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline harribobs

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2008, 09:43:25 PM »
he is on this photo, but unfortunately i don't know which one he is

click the photo for bigger image

 
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Applebygypsy

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2008, 04:51:10 PM »
Hi Chris,
Many many thanks for that on Sgt James Irlam. Next time I am at Kew I wall try to get more info on him. What you have sent is amazing and I will try to get his picture identified from family 8). If I am successful I will let you know which one he is. Ta veri muchly :).
Applebygypsy

Offline harribobs

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2008, 07:49:11 PM »

i thought you may be interested in this, the 22nd's action on the 1st July 1916




the objectives of the 22nd battalion that day were Bunny Ally and Fritz trench, which were northeast  of Mametz,

the 22nd's start point was roughly southeast, they left the trenches at 7.30, the map below is just to give you a rough idea of where they were starting from and going to. the divisional objective was Mametz it's self




B and D coys in front and C and A coys following, although taking heavy casualties they achieved their first objectives , Black Trench fell, then Bucket trench, however, they were losing contact with the creeping barrage and as the moved forward they suffered more and more casualties, they took Danzig Alley but couldn't hold on to it as the german defenders emerged from their bunkers and manned their machine guns. They fell back and the attack had stalled.

however a further bombardment and the sight of german defenders streaming away from the successful attack on Montauban meant the division could move forward and take Mametz . The 2nd Queens moved into Danzig Alley and drove the defenders out, 'bombing' them as they moved along the trench. this allowed the attack to move forward again and the 22nd with elements of the 21st battn as reinforcements were in Danzig Alley by late afternoon
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Applebygypsy

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2008, 09:31:30 PM »
Thank you Harribobs :),
That is a really usefull map and information. Did the 22nd remain in the area of Mametz to regroup, replen etc,
or did they push on to another area from there?
Regards
Applebygypsy

Offline harribobs

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2008, 11:40:26 PM »

well, on the 15th they where sent to High Wood, under the orders of the OC, 1st South Staffords

A coy was sent up to re-inforce, ( probably the sstaffs)

they obviously suffered, battalion casualties, 9 men KIA, 143 wounded, 84 men MIA . the battalion was then withdrawn to Minden Post

this was straight from the war diary, i'll see if i can get some more detail

chris
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Applebygypsy

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2008, 06:05:20 PM »
Hi Chris,
Many thanks for the extra info. Sgt James Irlam was killed on the 15 Jul according to his record from 'soldiers died in the great war'. The fact in your last missive, said that they had moved to High Wood on that day, and had a fair few casualties. Do 2 and 2 make 4? I do hope you are able to find out a little more for me.
Kind Regards.
Applebygypsy

Applebygypsy

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2008, 09:46:14 PM »
Hi Chris,
Sgt Irlam was killed on 15 Jul 1916, then I am told he would have been killed at Bazentin Ridge which took place 14 - 17 July 1916 :(. This was all part of the assault on the Longueval to Bazentin-le-Petit line, I am told ::). I assume that as he is mentioned at Thiepval on the monument, and as he has no known grave, there were there no closer cemeteries to High Wood?
Regards
Applebygypsy :)

timberman

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2008, 10:47:07 PM »
Hi Applebygypsy

Here’s a link about High wood you may find interesting.

http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/somme/high_wood.html

and this link

http://www.britishwargraves.co.uk/page18.htm

Taken from the above site.
(Around 300,000 soldiers are remembered on memorials to the missing in France & Belgium. These are men who were killed in action but have no known grave. The largest of these is the Thiepval Memorial to the missing which commemorates over 70,000 officers and men who were lost on the Somme. There are Memorials in most places around the world where there was fighting during the two world wars.)

In many of the cemeteries and there are some around High wood. (look on page two of the first link)  These have graves of known soldiers that are buried there and in some cases there are head stones for soldiers believed to be buried there and ones that could not be identified, with the inscription a soldier of the Great war, known unto God.
With the soldiers that have no known grave this can be for all sorts of reasons, cemeteries that where destroyed with bombardments, soldiers that where never recovered from the battle fields ect. These are the soldiers that ended up on the memorials like Thiepval, Tyne Cot, The Menin Gate ect.

Timberman




« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 10:58:54 PM by timberman »

Applebygypsy

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2008, 09:46:36 AM »
Thank you Timberman,
When I go to visit the places I will take note of what you have said. I prefer to do my own thing than one of the tours they have. I will also explore the web sites you have posted. Wishing you, and all the other helpful collegues, a Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year.
Kind Regards.
Applebygypsy

Offline harribobs

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2008, 09:49:49 AM »
Hi Chris,
Sgt Irlam was killed on 15 Jul 1916, then I am told he would have been killed at Bazentin Ridge which took place 14 - 17 July 1916 :(. This was all part of the assault on the Longueval to Bazentin-le-Petit line, I am told ::). I assume that as he is mentioned at Thiepval on the monument, and as he has no known grave, there were there no closer cemeteries to High Wood?
Regards
Applebygypsy :)

he has no none grave because either, his body was lost, his grave was lost or his body was never identified

chris
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Applebygypsy

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2008, 11:50:01 AM »
Cheers for that Chris,
I seem to be lost in all sorts of paperwork at present. Did not quite realise how involved my mothers relatives were in both world wars. My fathers side all seem to be in employments essential for the war effort and therefore did not enlist. My father worked at AVRO/Hawker Siddeley Chadderton as a heavy press inspector, and his father was employed on the railways, I hold his war service badge issue by the railways. Many thanks for your help on all topics. I always read what you Timberman, Tizgrannie etc inform and advize people about. All my best wishes over the coming festive season and may you have a Happy and Prosperous New Year :).
Kind Regards.
Applebygypsy

Applebygypsy

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2008, 04:35:01 PM »
Hi Timberman,
One last thank you for the High Wood information. I have just spent a happy :) hour or so reading and looking at the two web sites you mentioned.
Cheers again.
Applebygypsy

timberman

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Re: 20574 Sgt James Irlam, 22 Bn Manchester Regiment
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2008, 04:57:54 PM »
Hi Applebygypsy

You're very welcome.
If you prefer to sort your own trips out, the CWGC sell a little book of maps published by Michelin that covers all the Cemeteries and Memorials in Belgium and Northern France. I found it brilliant last summer.
If you go to their web site you can buy it on line.

Timberman