Author Topic: Thomas Evan Clark ?? pals battalion  (Read 12485 times)

jaks

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Thomas Evan Clark ?? pals battalion
« on: October 19, 2007, 12:44:52 AM »
I am looking for some help or advice regarding my Gt Grandfather, Thomas Evan Clark... He's something of an enigma.

All I know is:  He was with the Manchesters during WW1 (I have photo's of him in uniform but unfortunately it's not clear enough to see the emblem on his shoulder but his cap badge is a fleur de lis), although nobody seems to know which battallion.  My grandfather is under the impression that he joined up either in Preston or Wigan, however this strikes me as odd as he lived in Oldham.
My Grandfather told me that he believes he was gassed and shipped to a hospital in Cheshire where he met his wife.  We know that they are married in mid 1915 and their 1st child was born in 1916.  If my understanding is correct gas wasn't used until 22nd April 1915.... is this too late for him to be home from hospital and fit enough to marry?
I cannot find a medal roll or pension for him.  Family legend also has it that the British Legion refused to help him in later life which again strikes me as odd.

I don't know where to look next.........please help me solve the mystery!!

Jakki
« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 02:51:27 PM by harribobs »

Offline mack

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Re: Calling all Sherlock Holmes' out there!!
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2007, 03:07:03 AM »
the fleur de lys is the 7th manchesters.
they went to egypt in sept 1914.
their reserve battalion was in training at southport, 2 drafts of volunteers were sent to france to reinforce the regulars during this period.[early 1915]
if thomas was gassed in 1915, then it could only have been in france, cos the turks didnt use gas at gallipoli.

mack
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 09:34:38 AM by harribobs »

Offline harribobs

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 7th battalion
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2007, 09:41:43 AM »
Hi Jakki

welcome to the group

there are a couple of possibilities in the medal cards, i think this is the best fit

Description     
Medal card of Clark, Thomas
Corps   Regiment No   Rank
Manchester Regiment    3854    Private
Labour Corps    582195    Private
Date    1914-1920
Catalogue reference    WO 372/4

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0233/

i'd like to see that picture, any chance you can post it?

cheers

chris
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
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The Colonel

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 7th battalion
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2007, 02:58:56 PM »
The term "gassing" may not be as straight forward as you understand it to be. Soldiers who served at Gallipoli suffered from the effects of gas, but gas was never used at Gallipoli. They seem to refer to the fumes of the bombs as "gas", so this might explain why Thomas Clark was ill through "gassing" (fumes on the lungs) and sent to hospital in Cheshire.

The Colonel.

Offline mack

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 7th battalion
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2007, 04:36:26 PM »
The term "gassing" may not be as straight forward as you understand it to be. Soldiers who served at Gallipoli suffered from the effects of gas, but gas was never used at Gallipoli. They seem to refer to the fumes of the bombs as "gas", so this might explain why Thomas Clark was ill through "gassing" (fumes on the lungs) and sent to hospital in Cheshire.

The Colonel.
i have seen references of soldiers mentioning being gassed,but it turned out to be cordite fumes.
mack

jaks

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 7th battalion
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2007, 05:08:12 PM »
Thanks everyone for the help,
Unfortunately the medal rolls don't appear to be him..... I think his records were probably destroyed in WW2.  I don't have the original photo's of him (they're in France) and I accidentally deleted the copies off my pc but as soon as I recieve them from a relative I'll post them.

Do any of you know of any reasons why the British Legion would refuse him help?

Jakki

Offline harribobs

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 7th battalion
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2007, 07:12:45 PM »
there is another possibility, you say he has a fleur de lys cap badge,



 this was solely used by the 7th battalion and was pretty much replaced by the standard manchester coat of arms badge as the war went on



there are other army badges which look similar to the fleur de lys, i am thinking of the emu plumes used by other regiments (especially welsh regiments)

for example



i think we should have a look at that badge  ;)


« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 10:51:10 AM by harribobs »
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
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jaks

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 7th battalion
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2007, 05:20:17 PM »
As promised here are the pics....... I was obviously wrong bout the cap badge!

I don't know if they'll help but here they are!

Jakki

Offline mack

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 7th battalion
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2007, 06:56:39 PM »
jaks.
hes definately a manchester,hes in one of the pals battalion.
mack
ps.can we add him to our photo gallery :)

The Colonel

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 7th battalion
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2007, 08:12:03 PM »
This might help...
1901 census. RG13 Piece 3819 Folio 9 Page 9.
St Thomas' Leesfield, Oldham.
117, Wellyhole(?) St. Oldham.

Joseph Clark Head Married 34 Cotton Twiner born Clifton, Derby.
Sarah Clark Wife 33 born Oldham.
THOMAS EVAN CLARK Son 15 Cotton piecer born Oldham.
Richard Clark Son 10 born Oldham.
Percy Clark Son 8 born Oldham.
Sarah Clark Daughter 10 months Oldham.

The Colonel.



jaks

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2007, 09:36:25 PM »
Thanks guys......... of course you can add him to the gallery.

Jaks

Offline harribobs

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 7th battalion
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2007, 11:24:19 PM »
now we're getting somewhere!!

;D  well that's no fleur de lys on his cap!  it's a manchester badge but the coat of arms one ( 2nd pic above)  the killer is the shoulder title, they were early war issue to the pals battalions ( 16 to 24)


i think we have a new possible  ;)

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Offline harribobs

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 21st battalion :o)
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2007, 11:51:47 PM »
by the way, did you notice he's wearing a very different uniform in the second photo?

he's in hospital blues, probably recovering from being wounded, the other guy in the photo would have been a mate of his  ;)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 09:22:16 AM by harribobs »
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

jaks

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 21st battalion :o)
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2007, 08:50:27 AM »
Wow..... you guys are fantastic!!!  The possibility you mention, I don't think it's him..... I have a copy of a medal card for Pte Thomas. F. Clark, Manchesters, 19351 but it states he was killed in action!

I went to the local archives yesterday and turned up a new twist..... on the 1918 electoral register he is listed as an absent voter and the reason is naval or military occupation  so it appears that he WAS still in the army in 1918.

We've always pressumed the other guy on the pic was a mate, we don't think he's a family member!

I'm going to keep searching..........it's fascinating!!!

Jaks

Offline harribobs

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Re: Thomas Evan Clark poss 21st battalion :o)
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2007, 11:05:46 AM »
hmm  yes that was thomas frederick clark >:(

i wonder about this one....

Description     
Medal card of Clark, T
Corps   Regiment No   Rank
Manchester Regiment    18387    Company Serjeant Major
Date    1914-1920

if someone has the roll of honour handy, can they look him up please, (if he was a  Serjeant in 1914, he's not our man)

“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."