Author Topic: William Henry Hartas, Private, 16172  (Read 3557 times)

WmR

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William Henry Hartas, Private, 16172
« on: November 02, 2008, 02:41:26 PM »
I was named for William ("Uncle Bill") Hartas who lodged with my parents in Gorton. He died shortly before I was born in 1952.
I have three medals and what I think is a Turkish knife.
Any information on his life and actions would be welcome.

Offline themonsstar

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Re: William Henry Hartas, Private, 16172
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 02:58:02 PM »
Hi Wmr
Welcome to the site

Here is a Medal index card for the only W.Hartas I could find.

The name on the card is for a William Henry Hartas.

16172 Pte W.H.Hartas 12th Battalion Manch Regt.
Moved overseas on the 16th July 1915 to France.

He was discharge 26th Nov 1919 to Z Class Reserve


The 12th Bn was formed  at Ashton-U-Lyne Sept 1914, then moved to Wool, Jan 1915 Wimborne, May to Hursley Park 15/7/15 started to land at Boulogne.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 03:05:05 PM by themonsstar »

Offline mack

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Re: William Henry Hartas, Private, 16172
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 04:10:08 PM »
pte 16172 william,henry hartas
12th manchesters
enlisted 5-1-15
aged 29yrs 10mths
occupaion,blacksmith
next of kin listed as,nellie richman [friend],5 welton place,rusholme.
after the war,he resided,at 37 stewart st,gorton lane,gorton.
he stated,that he was born in 1872,which would make him 39yrs old,when he enlisted,not 29yrs old

mack

Offline harribobs

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Re: William Henry Hartas, Private, 16172
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 09:07:28 PM »
Hi Wmr

you may well be interested in this section on the main site regarding the 12th Battalion

http://www.themanchesters.org/12th%20batt.htm

cheers

chris
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  to serve as a warning to others."

WmR

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William Henry Hartas, "next of kin"
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 08:51:35 PM »
> next of kin listed as,nellie richman [friend],5 welton place,rusholme

Nellie Richmond was my grandmother (died c 1965).

> after the war,he resided,at 37 stewart st,gorton lane,gorton.

Where I was born :-)

I've learned more about this man in 24 hours through your efforts in this forum that I ever gleaned from my parents. I left it too late to ask them.

Any thoughts on how he might have come by the Turkish knife? (I'll post a photo tomorrow).

I also have a Swallowtail butterfly in an old cigarette tin. Tradition says he picked it up in the trenches after a gas attack. Lots of other possibilities - concussion from an explosion or simply trapped in his hands.


Offline Wendi

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Re: William Henry Hartas, Private, 16172
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 08:58:57 PM »
Hi William and Welcome to our Forum !

I checked back from 1952 to 1945 and could not see his death on the registers (they are not fool proof) but did he die in England?

Wendi  :)
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

WmR

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William Henry Hartas, "did he die in England?"
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 09:34:26 PM »
Evening, Wendi

> 1952 to 1945 and could not see his death on the registers

I believe that he died in Gorton (he was lodging with my parents at 37 Stewart Street) after my mother knew she was pregnant but before I was born in September - quite a tight window! It is possible he moved away just before his death - but to where? He cites no other next of kin and had lodged there with my grandparents since returning from the Great War.

My grandfather died towards the end of WW2. At the end of the war my grandmother (Nellie) went to live with her daughter ("Florie" - Florence?) and my parents took over the rent of 37 Stewart Street. I believe my mother (Amy) was a neighbour (daughter of Edward Cunliffe - see other posts); my (maternal) grandmother remarried, to James Kilkenny.

It seems possible that Henry knew my grandfather before enlisting (how else could he cite his wife, Nellie, as his "friend" under next of kin? Worth another thread?

WmR

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Turkish(?) knife and butterfly
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2008, 02:58:38 PM »
I believe these was brought back by WHH. Has anyone seen anything similar?
I assume he must have acquired the knife from someone if he didn't serve in Turkey.
The knife is 240mm (9.5") long, the blade is 140mm (5.5"). Note the decorative inserts on faces and edge. The handle is bone and metal - as a boy I always thought the metal ones were three-penny bits :-)
The butterfly has survived, but only just.

Offline harribobs

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Re: William Henry Hartas, Private, 16172
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2008, 08:39:07 PM »

i have never seen a knife like that before! it's very impressive! it always possible that he got the knife from someone who served in the middle east
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline mack

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Re: William Henry Hartas, Private, 16172
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2008, 09:20:29 PM »
william.
thanks for showing us the butterfly,we dont often get to see the personal effects of what soldiers brought back from the war.

mack