Septimus Illidge 8th manchester regiment.

[sadie]

Hi,  My great uncle Septimus Illidge, served with the 9th battalion Lancs fusiliers for 3mths and was then discharged on what looks like medical grounds.  He then joined a territorial unit in1915, The 8th Manchester regimentand was discharged 22/5/16.  On his records there is a very large "squigle"  HS which somebody suggested was Home Serivice.   Are there any records of this regiment?   Thanks

[harribobs]

hi Sadie

and welcome to the group

i would be interested in seeing the documents you have, can you post them to this thread (use the 'additional options' below and attach them there

cheers

chris

[timberman]

Hi
This is the only MIC for a Septimus Illidge that I can find and only mentions the Manchester Regiment

Description   Medal card of Illidge, Septimus
Corps   Regiment No   Rank
Manchester Regiment   5090   Private

Date   1914-1920
Catalogue reference   WO 372/10

Timberman

[Wendi]

Timberman I don't think Sadie's GUncle went abroad 

Hi Sadie and a Warm Welcome 

Can you please let us know what Septimus' Service Number was?

Thanks

Wendi 

[timberman]

Thanks Wendi 

He could of done a quick dash across the channel between  1915 and 1916 (maybe not)

[mack]

his MIC is for his SWB,not for medals,hes listed on SWB list as H/2017/1
pte 3038 septimus illidge
9th lancashire fusiliers
enlisted 13-8-14 at mill st police station manchester
residing with his father,at 18 blackthorn st,ardwick
aged 22yrs 11mths
occupation.chemical labourer
born,runcorn 1891
1901 lived at 19 renshaw st,lostock gralem,northwich with his parents,alfred+martha and 4 brothers,alfred/joseph/john/william.
later moved to 8 neville st,lostock gralem
religion.CofE
discharged at grantham,on 30-10-14,medically unfit for service[hammer toed]
armlet 60220 issued by manchester police.
on 20-11-15 he re-enlisted in the 3/8th manchesters at ardwick as pte 5090 septimus illidge
discharged at whitley camp as medically unfit[hammer toed] on 22-5-16
aged 24
married miss elizabeth,ann done 1915
resided with his father,at 18 blackthorn st,ardwick.
awarded a SWB on 8-3-19
1919 was living at 10 ivy st,liverpool rd,deansgate,manchester.

mack

[timberman]

Didn't know what hammer toed was, so had a look.

HAMMER TOES

(Other Toe Problems - Mallet toes, Clawed toes, Retracted toes, Over-lapping toes)

Hammer toes and exostosis (bony prominences) are all a result of an imbalance of the muscle structures of the toes combined with excessive pressure and stress. The toes become crooked, bent, or buckle under, causing joints to protrude.

Although heredity can be a factor in the formation of these conditions, usually it is ill-fitting shoes that precipitate these conditions. In diabetics, or people with poor circulation, hammer toes can be a serious condition. Infections can ensue and the hammertoes can become the source of a loss of limb. If a corn develops over a hammer toe, it is usually a result of the pressure between the toe and the shoe.

Timberman

[Wendi]

Why the SWB surely not for hammer toes (thanks for the description timberman  )

[harribobs]

yes, why not, he was discharged for medical reasons, and he was certainly willing to fight

[Wendi]

  Ok I just thought that the SWB was for wounds/sickness sustained while in service, not those you already had 

[timberman]

Hi Wendi
If I reading it right from the three differant sources you are right and seeing as he had already been discharged before and given an armlet 60220 why was he not given a SWB then.

Would it of been issued ie. so people knew that he had been in the Army and not think he was a coward.


All three ref. say the same

His incapacity must have been caused by military service,

Long long trail
Many of the men and women who were invalided out of the army after a wound or sickness that led to a medical down-grading were awarded this badge. It was authorised in September 1916 and applied to soldiers regardless of whether they had served in a theatre of war or not. Thus a soldier could 'win' a SWB but have no campaign medals. He will therefore have a Medal Index Card. The badges were individually numbered on the reverse side.
The Silver War Badge is mentioned on the man's medal index card (shown as "List...") and there are detailed rolls that give a certain amount of vital information about the recipient. At the very least you will learn the number of the badge and the official reason and date of his discharge. The rolls of the SWB are at the National Archives and are not available online.


Wikipedia
The Silver War Badge was authorised in September 1916. It was given to people who had been ill or wounded whilst in military service at a theatre of war or at home.
The badge was almost a defence against the women of Britain, when it was first introduced. If a man was thought not to be in one of the Services then they would give him a white feather to show that he was a coward. So this badge was designed for the civilians who had at one time been in the army, but had been discharged. This Badge meant that they could not be called a coward, they would have a reason for not being in the war. The badge was to be worn on the right breast while in civilian dress, it was forbidden to wear on a military uniform.

The western front association
The badge, which is of sterling silver, was issued to men of all three services who were discharged because of wounds, sickness, or old age. To qualify, the recipient had to have served for at least seven days between 4th August 1914 and 31st December 1919 and his incapacity must have been caused by military service. The badge was instituted in 1916.

Timberman

[Wendi]

Would it of been issued ie. so people knew that he had been in the Army and not think he was a coward.

Think you might be right .......... The logical conclusion Spock !

[harribobs]

Would it of been issued ie. so people knew that he had been in the Army and not think he was a coward.

Think you might be right .......... The logical conclusion Spock !

i agree

[Devil Wood]

 Then again!!!!
He may have been a blacksmiths striker and dropped the hammer?

[mack]

septimus had this condition when he enlisted,it wasnt caused by his service,but it would have caused it to get much worse.
technically speaking,septimus wasnt entitled to a SWB for his ailment,BUT he was entitled to it because his service was contributing to his ill health.
armlets were introduced in the early days of the war,before the SWB was brought out.
there was a case about a man,who suffered from a heart condition,he would have been able to function ok,in his civilian life,but the vigours of army training caused his health to break down,and he died
SWBs were only issued for wounds and sickness,caused by their service and to those whos health had been aggravated by service.

mack