Author Topic: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search  (Read 12706 times)

Helen

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2008, 05:44:04 PM »
Dear Ras

I cannot thank you enough.  Your emails are absolutely brilliant! 

It is amazing to look at the maps, I can pretty much locate now where Lionel was.  I think he is in one of the cemetries, unmarked graves.  I had a look at the Gallipolli Association website and it really brings home, by looking at the different cemetries, how many men died and what an awful task it must have been to bury them.  I also think it is an impossible task for me to find Lionel's grave but thanks to the information you have given me I can get as close to where is he as is possible to know. 

What a wonderful thought to think that the fields are now full of sunflowers.

I guess your search for your Great Uncle is pretty much along the same lines as mine.  It is nice to look at the pictures knowing that Lionel is there. 

I look forward to being able to buy a copy of your book once you have written it.  I have Lionel's last letters, Embodiment Notice, notification of death, notification of buriel, newspaper articles of Lionel, letter from Kitchener (which actually looks like a standard one), if these would be of any help in your book I would gladly email you copies.

Again thank you very much for the information.

Kind regards.

Helen


Offline harribobs

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2008, 08:54:22 PM »
i think Ras has been hiding his light under a bushel here, excellent stuff!
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Horrocks1

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2008, 08:43:51 AM »
Helen

Thank very much you for your comments. Yes, I would very much like to see the remaining things from your Grandfather and read the letters if possible please.

I have been reading various Manchesters' notes and letters on their experiences at Gallipoli (with the invaluable help of Bob Bonner, this group and the archivists at Ashton Local Studies Library I may add) and each could have been Lionel's or William's experience. While my book is, I guess, a more ''personal account'' of Gallipoli, for I had relatives fighting on the Turkish side as well at the same time, it will devote a large section to the Manchesters and William and his Battalion, the 7th (TF) in particular. However, any information on the experiences of fellow members of the Manchesters, of any of the other Battalions that fought at the same place an in the same trenches, can only but make the whole thing come closer to the truth. You see, what there is left on print on Gallipoli and the Manchesters does not do justice to their plight and bravery. Here were a bunch of, for all intents and purposes, enthusiastic part time soldiers who experienced some of the most brutal fighting of the Great War and took it 'on the chin' so-to-speak, without grumbling. Ultimately, sadly, for nothing. Because, it ended as a defeat for the British the whole Gallipoli thing was pushed to the back pages of history. However, their full story has to be told, for as the memory fades and the interest of the generations that followed diminishes, their endeavors will sadly be forgotten. And, I believe that we must not permit that to happen.

That's enough lecture. Sorry about that... I got carried away!! Here are some more photos of the Vineyard/ Ardwick Green/Krithia Nullah area and the Cemetery of Redoubt. I would bet my bottom Dollar that both Lionel and William are buried there. The bodies of the dead often remained on the surface or near the surface till 1919 when under the Armistice terms the British returned to clear up the carnage of four years previous. To their horror they discovered that very few of the dead had been interned properly for the Turks had evacuated the bulk of their 5th Army who fought at Gallipoli almost immediately after the British evacuation in January 1916 and as there was nobody left to bury the dead (British and Turkish) the remains were left where they fell and where they were temporarily interned. That is why there are so many soldiers on both sides that are still classed as 'missing, By the time the British got back in 1919 all clothes, tags and any other form of identity on many of the remains were lost or removed by the local villagers.

So, thats why we get these huge cemeteries with very few grave stones.The rest is lawn covered unidentified graves. I guess Lionel will be one of them for all small temporary graves too were moved to these new British built graves. Sadly, still to this day, when the farmers of Krithia village plough their fields some bone or something other of a dead soldier comes up. These are, however, very carefully removed and are buried with religious ceremony at the nearest graveyard.

I will send the photos separately once again because of download limits. I hope you like them. And I hope to hear from you soon.

This one is the Cypress covered path looking from the gates of Redoubt Cemetery towards Krithia Road. This is how you reach the cemetery. Its about 150 meters from the main road.

With kindest regards.


Ras Gures

Horrocks1

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2008, 08:46:07 AM »
This is the Redoubt Cemetery entrance and these are my sons who are my 'research assistants'.

Horrocks1

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2008, 08:47:21 AM »
Again the same.

Horrocks1

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2008, 08:49:51 AM »
This is looking back from from the Edge of Krithia Nullah dry riverbed towards the Redoubt Cometary (while you can't see it, it is 30 meters to the left of the trees).

Horrocks1

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2008, 08:53:46 AM »
If you refer back to the excellent maps that were sent to you. This high ground is the edge of the Turkish H11a trench which was taken by the Manchesters in August 1915. It is but a stone throws away from Ardwick Green trench. Note how high the Turkish position was and that is without any sandbags, parapets and machine guns!

Horrocks1

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2008, 08:56:27 AM »
Last but not least, inside of the Krithia Nullah again. One could almost put up a hammock and have a nap!

Horrocks1

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2008, 12:07:38 AM »
Helen

What is your email address please? Mine is *use the email option under Horrocks user name at left* and can be used to exchange any documents due to size restrictions in our group.

Finally, for what it is worth, I wish to repeat here what Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, who was instrumental in the Turkish victory and who later became the first President of Modern Turkey, said in a speech in 1934. These word of his are inscribed at the Anzac Cove monument and puts an end to the concerns of people like us still looking for missing relatives' graves at Gallipoli.

'' THOSE HEROES THAT SHED THEIR BLOOD AND LOST THEIR LIVES...YOU ARE NOW LYING IN THE SOIL OF A FRIENDLY COUNTRY. THEREFORE REST IN PEACE.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE JOHNNIES (the Allied soldiers) AND THE MEHMETS (Turkish soldiers) TO US WHERE THEY LIE SIDE BY SIDE IN THIS COUNTRY OF OURS....

YOU, THE MOTHERS, WHO SENT THEIR SONS FROM FAR AWAY COUNTRIES, WIPE AWAY YOUR TEARS, YOUR SONS ARE NOW LYING IN OUR BOSOMS AND ARE AT PEACE. AFTER HAVING LOST THEIR LIVES ON THIS LAND THEY HAVE BECOME OUR SONS AS WELL''.

Regards

*mod edit, Ras i've moved your email address for your security, members can can contact you using the email icon under your user name*
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 12:23:41 AM by harribobs »

Offline harribobs

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2008, 12:32:04 AM »
i think it's also worth repeating 'YOU ARE NOW LYING IN THE SOIL OF A FRIENDLY COUNTRY'

having visited Turkey many times ( but not Galipolli as yet) i can certainly second that

i've really appreciated this thread!

chris
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline Wendi

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2008, 08:20:49 PM »
i've really appreciated this thread!

Me too !!!

I've not stuck my head in as I had nothing to add, 'till now. 

Just wanted to say Thanks Helen for asking the questions & Ras for replying so eloquently with such wonderful photos.  My GUncle was also in the area and I could never, before now, imagine it.

For those who did not leave I echo that which I have been told 'YOU ARE NOW LYING IN THE SOIL OF A FRIENDLY COUNTRY'

Wendi  :)

« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 08:24:44 PM by Wendi »
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

liverpool annie

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2008, 08:41:30 PM »

Me three !!  :D

Thank you very much ... wonderful stuff !

May they all be at peace !

Annie  :)

Helen

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2008, 06:10:00 PM »
Thank you Ras again for the wonderful information.

I cannot believe how many men died (on both sides Turkish as well), this has been a complete "eye opener" for me.  So many men wasted!  Their memory shouldn't be forgotten.  My Gran was left with two children and was only 23 years of age, and so many women were like her, left back home.

I will try to contact you direct to send the information I have, I have tried to post a picture of Lionel that I have on the forum (he is in his Manchester's Uniform), but it keeps coming back error (I must be doing something wrong).

I also have a picture of Lionel working in a factory (it looks like he is working on a car wheel) must have been about 1912-ish.  Does anyone know if there were any car factories in Salford/Hulme area of Manchester at the time?

Again thank you for the information.

Helen

Offline mack

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2008, 06:28:59 PM »
there was rols royce,at trafford park,and crossley motors in openshaw.

mack ;D

Offline Wendi

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Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2008, 12:02:27 PM »
Helen would like to know if anyone thinks they are Rolls Royce tyres

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha