Author Topic: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search  (Read 12707 times)

Helen

  • Guest
Hello Could anyone help me?

My Great Grandfather was Lionel Edwards of 24 Victoria Street, Hulme, Manchester.

He died in Gallipoli in June 1915.  He was 1110 Private L Edwards and is commemorated on the Helles Memorial in Turkey.

I have a box which was kept in the family, which has letters and documents in from Lionel when he was in Gallipoli.  When he died a letter was sent from Office i/c Territorial Force Records, Preston which says "Notification has this day been received to the effect that the Late No. 1110 Private L Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment was buried at Krithia Nullah, Gallipoli (spot marked). 

Signed: (Can't make out initials) Smith Major for Colonel i/c T.F. Records.  dated: Preston 15/10/15

I would like to go to Gallipoli to find Lionel's grave, would I be able to locate it from this?

The date the family has that he died is 2nd June 1915.

Thank you, Helen

« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 10:50:22 PM by harribobs »

Offline harribobs

  • Site Monkey
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,179
Re: 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2008, 10:49:26 PM »
Hi Helen

and welcome to the forum

from the CWGC site

Name:     EDWARDS, LIONEL
Initials:    L
Nationality:    United Kingdom
Rank:    Private
Regiment/Service:    Manchester Regiment
Unit Text:    1st/8th Bn.
Age:    23
Date of Death:    30/05/1915
Service No:    1110
Additional information:    Son of William and Fanny Etchells, of 5, Lord Duncan St., Salford, Manchester; husband of Jane Isabel Edwards, of 24, Victoria St., Hulme, Manchester.
Casualty Type:    Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference:    Panel 158 to 170.
Memorial:    HELLES MEMORIAL

I'm sorry to tell you but it would seem that Lionel's grave was lost. Krithia Nullah was the site of a battle which was very costly to the territorial battalions of the regiment, many Manchester men lost their lives there.

From the CWGC site 'The Helles Memorial serves the dual function of Commonwealth battle memorial for the whole Gallipoli campaign and place of commemoration for many of those Commonwealth servicemen who died there and have no known grave.' and Lionel's name is on it because he has no known grave

chris
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline harribobs

  • Site Monkey
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,179
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2008, 10:53:54 PM »
Both Commonwealth War Graves Commission and Soldiers Died in the Great War both have him as being killed in action on the 30th May 1915

The were in a trench named 'Ardwick Green' preparing for the 3rd battle of Krithia

chris
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 10:57:32 PM by harribobs »
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Helen

  • Guest
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 06:48:16 PM »
Chris

Thank you so much for your reply.

The conclusion I have now come to is that he was buried somewhere near this trench.  Will I be able to locate this trench, I know there are still trenches unchanged today?  Do you know if there is a British Cemetry near where the trench was?  Is it near Fir Tree Wood & Gully Ravine?

I know I am probably asking for the impossible!

The story in the family was that Lionel went for water and was shot by a sniper.  Therefore it is very likely it was before the Third Battle of Krithia.

Any information you or anyone else could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you again, Helen

Offline harribobs

  • Site Monkey
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,179
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2008, 08:51:24 PM »

indeed, he was killed four days before the battle

i will send you a map showing which should answer your question, unfortunately i am unable to post it on a public forum

i would suggest you have a look at this site for the gallipoli association ;)

http://www.gallipoli-association.org/default.asp

cheers

chris
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Horrocks1

  • Guest
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 08:17:14 AM »
Hi Helen

One of my relatives William Edward Horrocks of the 7th Manchesters, another TA Battalion that was in the Dardanelles was killed (still missing) at the Vineyard, Krithia Nullah area on August 7th 1915. As I'm working on a book at the moment on the campaign and have a summer house about 70 miles from Gallipolli I visit the area regularly and was there last month taking photos. I can, very gladly, send you the pictures I took of the Krithia Nullah area. Unfortunately, the trenches have long gone and fields have taken their place but you can easily see the very small distances (300 to 400 yards) that the Manchesters were ordered to attack in 1915. Your relative would have lived and died on one of these small fields.


Ras Gures

Fritz Bayer

  • Guest
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 10:02:37 AM »
Helen.

These maps may be of use...

1. showing trench locations, incl. Ardwick Green (from 42 Div history)...

Fritz Bayer

  • Guest
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 10:04:15 AM »
2... as above, but from the "official History of the War, Military Operations, Gallipoli" - maps volume...

Fritz Bayer

  • Guest
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 10:05:18 AM »
3. Same source as above, showing 3rd Krithia objectives...

Horrocks1

  • Guest
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2008, 04:30:38 PM »
Helen

Attached are photos of where Ardwich Green/Wigan Road/Vineyard trenches was in 1915. If you look at the maps that were sent  yesterday you'll see exactly where they were. I'm afraid they don't exist anymore as trenches. They are all fields now. The infamous Vineyard is now a Sunflower field of perfect tranquility as is Krithia Nullah. This is where the Manchesters lived, fought and died, including Lionel Edwards and my great uncle William Horrocks.

As for a possible burial place its now impossible to pinpoint I'm afraid. But, more than likely he is buried in one of the 2300+ unmarked graves at the REDOUBT CEMETERY which is only yards away from where he died. Otherwise, he is buried somewhere in the fields nearby which still holds the remains of some 21,000 British and 35,000 Turkish Soldiers still unaccounted for.

I hope you find the photos useful. I'm afraid I'm having to send them one by one because of size restrictions.   

This photo shows where the Ardwick Green trech would have been. The distant tree line is about where it was.

Regards

Ras Gures


Horrocks1

  • Guest
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2008, 04:37:20 PM »
this is the Vineyard.

Horrocks1

  • Guest
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2008, 04:39:08 PM »
This is looking North up KRITHIA NULLAH, the dry riverbed.

Horrocks1

  • Guest
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2008, 04:47:11 PM »
The Redoubt Cemetery.

Horrocks1

  • Guest
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2008, 04:49:40 PM »
Looking up towards the Turkish Trenches from the wall of the Redoubt cemetery. The tree line is Ardwick Green and Wigan Rd trenches met. To the right is the edge of the vineyard.

Offline harribobs

  • Site Monkey
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,179
Re: Lionel Edwards 8th Manchester Regiment - Gallipoli Grave Search
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2008, 09:23:32 PM »
excellent!

thanks Ras
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."