Author Topic: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment  (Read 6844 times)

Linda

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Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« on: August 21, 2008, 03:53:16 PM »
The number on the back of this photo is 148314.  How can I identify him.  I have been told he is a corporal in the Manchester Regiment.

Online mack

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2008, 05:30:06 PM »
hiya linda.
sorry i havent replied to your letter yet,it came while i was away on holiday.
the badge looks like a general service cap badge.

it was nice to hear from you again.

mack ;D[bernard]

Offline harribobs

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2008, 08:47:33 PM »
hi Linda

definitely not a manchesters badges i'm afraid

i think the number is probably the photographers reference number ( if he was asked for further prints)

chris
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Linda

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2008, 12:43:34 PM »
Hi

Thanks for the replies.  If it is a general service badge does that mean he could be in the Manchesters? I will try and find more details.

Mack (Bernard) nice to hear from you again. Hope you had a good holiday.

Linda

Offline harribobs

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2008, 03:40:15 PM »
Hi

Thanks for the replies.  If it is a general service badge does that mean he could be in the Manchesters? I

Linda

my opinion ( and i stress opinion ) is no, he's an NCO and i would have been surprised if he wasn't wearing his regimental badge, however there could be a hundred reasons why not ::)
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Online mack

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2008, 01:02:29 PM »
ime not clued up on the function of a general serviceman,i always assumed they signed up,but were not particular about which branch of the army,they served in.
but ime puzzled about this picture,hes wearing a gen service cap badge,but hes also wearing shoulder titles,i didnt think there was any such thing as gen service shoulder titles.

mack

Offline harribobs

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2008, 03:40:21 PM »
i didn't notice the titles!

early war uniform as well, pleated pockets
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Linda

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 04:19:38 PM »
Sorry about my ignorance but can you tell me what shoulder titles signify?  Also, when you say "early war uniform" what sort of dates are you thinking of?
Thanks, Linda

Offline harribobs

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 07:29:17 PM »
hi Linda

if we could see them properly they would tell us his regiment and perhaps which battalion

you could try another scan (high resolution)  of just the right shoulder, we might (MIGHT) be able to hazard a guess ;)

cheers

chris
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Fritz Bayer

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 08:25:15 PM »
Labour Corps?, Training Reserve? ... quite a variety of soldiers could be seen it that badge during WW1.

(Chris , pleated pockets don't mean early war - dependant on manufacturer, they were made throughout the war and, in fact, the plain pocketed "simplified" jacket actually stopped being made and they were all pleated after 1916)

Dave

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2008, 09:02:24 PM »

i didn't know that!  :o
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Fritz Bayer

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2008, 09:33:39 PM »
This might be of interest then Chris. It's a little listing of changes that I wrote for someone on a WW2 forum (coz I got peed off with people banging on about "22 pattern tunics" on the GWF!!!)...



1902 - AO10 , 40 and 251 formalize the new issue jacket which is described as "loose fitting, with a turned down "rolled" collar. Rifle patches on the shoulders, patch pockets on the breast, side pockets let into the skirts below the waist and with plain, removeable shoulder straps".

1904 - (1st modification) - the removeable shoulder straps were replaced with permanent straps made of twisted cord.

1907 - (2nd modification) - the twisted cord shoulders were replaced with sewn down shoulder straps. This is the jacket that Britain went to war in 1914 wearing.

1914/1915- (3rd modification) - externally identical to the previous style jacket, but underwent changes to the upper pocket lining.

1918 - (4th modification) - lining changes (some were of khaki/green cotton as in post-war jackets (previously they had been white cotten/linen) and can have neck linings) and removal of the arm hole reinforcing stitch. These are invariably mistaken for "altered" post-war jackets, though they tend to still have the "loose" fit of wartime jackets.

1922 - (5th modification) - all linings and facings changed to khaki cotton, the "double dart" (pleats) on each side of the collar changed to just one. No reinforcing stitch at the arm hole and a tailoring seam added to the front between the upper patch pocket and the skirt pocket.The collar was also made higher. This jacket was no longer "loose" fitting, but was tailored into a smart fitting garment which could also be used for dress occasions (proportions around the chest and back were reduced, the skirts were elongated and the upper arm was narrowed). This modification of the 1902 SD jacket soldiered on into the 1960's (at least).
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The above were the "mainstay" jackets... below are the oddball "simplified" (sometimes referred to as "utility") 1902 SD Jackets...

1914 - due to the extreme demand for uniforms, contracts were drawn up in the early Autumn of 1914 for a simplified 1902 pattern jacket. This was to ease and speed up manufacture. basically, they were a standard 1907 version of the jacket, but with certain details eliminated - the rifle patches went, as did the pleats on the (slightly enlarged) breast pockets. The pieces of cloth used to make the back of the jacket were reduced from 5 to just 3. Other than that, ie lining wise, etc, they were the same as the 1907 variation.
While these jackets were being produced, pre-war manufacturers continued producing the un-simplified versions as before and the production of the simplified jacket ceased in 1915 when all manufacturers reverted to the standard pattern. However, such quantities of these simplified jackets were made that issue of them continued throughout the war.

1941 -Though BD had become the "norm" by now, SD was still issued to and worn by certain troops. In 1941 another simplified version of the SD was introduced (this time the reason was, in the main, to reduce manufacturing costs and materials). This, though less simplified than the WW1 version, omitted the pocket pleats and the tailoring seam but still retained the rifle patches. Sometimes they can be encountered with composite buttons. Manufacture of this style continued throughout the war, but ceased soon after conclusion by most manufacturers (I say "most" because I'm sure I've seen one dated 1961!).

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1945 - The 1902 SD Jacket of the 5th modification variation (officially by now the "Jacket, Service Dress, O.P." (old pattern)) was officially re-introduced (though it never left!) into the British Army in March 1945 for bandsmen and several other callings. It continued to soldier on, pretty much unchanged, for at least another 20 years.

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Dave
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 10:09:56 AM by Fritz Bayer »

Offline Wendi

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Re: Is this man in the Manchester Regiment
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2008, 11:22:52 AM »
Of interest certainly !  Thanks Dave !

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha