Author Topic: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?  (Read 6747 times)

isabel_h

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Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« on: August 20, 2008, 01:13:07 PM »
Hello everyone! My great-grandfather David Harold Tytler was a company sergeant major in the Manchester Regiment 1/8th (Ardwick Terratorial) Battalion. He died at Ypres, WWI. He owned a kilt which was passed down in the family where it saw service as a bedspread and table cloth before being turned into a waistcoat. Anyway I am trying to find the origin of the kilt and I just wondered if the Manchesters ever wore kilts or had an associated tartan.

Thanks!
Isabel

Offline mack

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2008, 04:13:00 PM »
hiya isabel.
i havent seen any mention of kilts being worn by the manchesters.
robert bonner,is the official historian of the manchesters,hes a member of our forum,he will know.
is it possible that the kilt is your family tartan,CSM tytlers mam+dad were scottish.
CSM 129.david,harold tytler[later renumbered as 302259]
1/8th manchesters
occupation,commercial clerk.
born.manchester 1880
parents.james+eleanor,86 kirkmanshulme lane,longsight,manchester
married 1903
landed in egypt 25-9-14
killed in action,8-9-17
aged 37
brothers.james/robert/arthur/willie
sisters.florence/millie.

mack

isabel_h

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2008, 06:27:10 PM »
Thanks for your reply Mack! Yes the record you have attached is my great-grandfather. Can you tell me when it dates from? You're right, his parents were Scottish but as far as I can tell there is no clan tartan for the Tytlers, which is why I was wondering if it could perhaps be regimental (clutching at straws really - the kilt probably came from his father James).

Do you also have the record for my great-great-grandfather CSM James Caton (CSM Tytler's father-in-law) also from the 1/8th Manchesters? He was killed at Gallipoli.

Many thanks
Isabel

timberman

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2008, 09:19:27 PM »
Hi
This is his CWGC entry.

Name: CATON, JAMES
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Company Serjeant Major
Regiment/Service: Manchester Regiment
Unit Text: 1st/8th Bn.
Date of Death: 04/06/1915
Service No: 63
Additional information: Father of Mrs. Emily Maud Bowden, of 312, Moston Lane, Moston, Manchester.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 158 to 170.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

Timberman

Offline harribobs

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2008, 09:29:41 PM »
james caton SDGW

“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

isabel_h

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2008, 08:32:29 AM »
Thanks timberman and harribobs - really interesting!

Isabel

Offline mack

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2008, 11:54:00 AM »
CSM tytler was wounded at gallipoli,on 4th june 1915.
he was living at syndall st,ardwick at the time.

mack

Offline mack

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2008, 12:06:55 PM »
Thanks for your reply Mack! Yes the record you have attached is my great-grandfather. Can you tell me when it dates from? You're right, his parents were Scottish but as far as I can tell there is no clan tartan for the Tytlers, which is why I was wondering if it could perhaps be regimental (clutching at straws really - the kilt probably came from his father James).

Do you also have the record for my great-great-grandfather CSM James Caton (CSM Tytler's father-in-law) also from the 1/8th Manchesters? He was killed at Gallipoli.

Many thanks
Isabel
hiya isabel.
theres no date for CSM tytlers record,its info from my own database,pieced togethor from casualty rolls,medal cards etc
which daughter of CSM caton,did he marry,was it edith,or lily.

mack

Offline Robert Bonner

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2008, 02:03:45 PM »
Isabel.
Sorry to disappoint you but the Manchesters never had a tartan.  Many  were of course Scots such as George Henderson VC. Another who wore the kilt on every possible opportunity was Lieutenant Colonel 'Mad Jack' Churchill.  Not only did he wear the kilt, he played the bagpipes and carried a claymore into battle in WWII. 

Robert
Robert

isabel_h

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2008, 01:50:27 PM »

theres no date for CSM tytlers record,its info from my own database,pieced togethor from casualty rolls,medal cards etc
which daughter of CSM caton,did he marry,was it edith,or lily.

mack

Hello Mack
Very impressive research! CSM Caton had nine children including four daughters, Emily, Lily, Edith (Edie) and Millicent (Millie). CSM Tytler married his eldest daughter, Emily. After CSM Tytler's death, she re-married, becoming Emily Bowden.

Isabel

isabel_h

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2008, 01:52:34 PM »
Isabel.
Sorry to disappoint you but the Manchesters never had a tartan.  Many  were of course Scots such as George Henderson VC. Another who wore the kilt on every possible opportunity was Lieutenant Colonel 'Mad Jack' Churchill.  Not only did he wear the kilt, he played the bagpipes and carried a claymore into battle in WWII. 

Robert

Very interesting - thanks!
Isabel

isabel_h

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2008, 01:57:54 PM »
CSM tytler was wounded at gallipoli,on 4th june 1915.
he was living at syndall st,ardwick at the time.

mack

Yes I have his date of death recorded as 4th June 1915. He is commemorated on the Helles Memorial. Do you know if 4/6/1915 corresponds to the data of a specific battle in Gallipoli?

Isabel

Offline harribobs

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2008, 03:38:34 PM »
yes, the third battle of Krithia

chris
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isabel_h

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2008, 04:22:49 PM »
yes, the third battle of Krithia

chris

Thank you! I am really learning a lot. I have just done a Google search to learn more about that particular battle and I see that thousands of Allied troops died that day.

Isabel

Offline harribobs

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Re: Did the Manchester Regiment ever use a tartan?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2008, 09:58:45 PM »
just for reference ( as this will include all theatres of war, but mainly they will have happened at Gallipoli)  the regiment lost over 530 men killed during 4th -7th June 1915
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."