Author Topic: army numbers,pals battalions  (Read 5775 times)

Offline mack

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army numbers,pals battalions
« on: July 28, 2008, 08:21:36 AM »
there is some confusion about the size of a soldiers army number,in relation to when he enlisted and also when he went overseas.
i have noticed on the GWF.that one of its members,continuously states,that a manchester who has a service number in the 30001-39999 batch,was a replacement for casualties suffered on the 1st july 1916.
this is not true,many manchesters,with a service number in this batch,were already in france,as early as may 1916.
using the 16th,17th,18th and 19th batts as a example,they formed their A.B.C.D companies from those who were fit enough for front line action,those who were considered as not up to scratch or needed as instructors,were posted to the 25th or 26th res batts.
they were then posted to the 69thTR batt.
for some unknown reason,some of these men,were renumbered in the 30001-39999 series and then sent overseas.
some of these men,had already been to france as original members of the manchester pals, and been returned home as sick or wounded.
a manchester,with a service number in the 30001-39999 doesnt suggest he was a late enlister

mack

Offline harribobs

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Re: army numbers,pals battalions
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2008, 12:58:50 PM »
interesting! i would like to do a project on regimental numbers at some time

in a similar vein, the same poster commented yesterday
Quote
SDGW normally cuts off at or around 11/11/18.

really?  mine records 4691 deaths from the 11/11/18 to the 31/12/1921
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline Wendi

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Re: army numbers,pals battalions
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2008, 01:12:08 PM »
i would like to do a project on regimental numbers at some time

Me too  ;D
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it!  No matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and with your own common sense" ~ Buddha

Fritz Bayer

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Re: army numbers,pals battalions
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2008, 02:21:43 PM »
 
Quote
in a similar vein, the same poster commented yesterday
Quote
SDGW normally cuts off at or around 11/11/18.

really?  mine records 4691 deaths from the 11/11/18 to the 31/12/1921

One of the problems that I see with people's perceptions of SDGW is that they see it as a single entity when in fact it's actually 81 with no such thing as a "cut-off date". Though published in (June?)1921, each regiment supplied it's own listings with the earliest being submitted in December 1918 (therefore (theoretically - but later lists were added on occasion) there should be no casualties listed for this particular unit for 1919,20 and 21). Other units submitted their listings at later dates and, therefore, contained later dated casualties. Although addenda lists were created and supplied, the 1919-21 period is the most incomplete section of the whole series with it being at it's most complete (generally speaking) up until December 31st 1918 (if a "cut-off date" simply has to be supplied, then , for the whole series, it would have been April 1921 when the "completed" set was sent for publication*).

A hell of a task in all reality and, for all it's faults and (myriads of) omissions, it was a tremendous piece of work!

Dave

* or October 1919 for ODGW (a seperate entity)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 02:37:07 PM by Fritz Bayer »

Fritz Bayer

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Re: army numbers,pals battalions
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2008, 02:30:41 PM »
in a similar vein, the same poster commented yesterday
Quote
SDGW normally cuts off at or around 11/11/18.

really?  mine records 4691 deaths from the 11/11/18 to the 31/12/1921

But 4633 of these will be pre 1920 (see my above comments). Only 28 listed for the whole of 1920-21 (the last being a Lancashire Fusilier who died in March 1921)

dave

Offline mack

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Re: army numbers,pals battalions
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2008, 03:47:57 PM »
only a mans service record,can determine,when he enlisted and when he went overseas.

mack

Offline harribobs

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Re: army numbers,pals battalions
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2008, 04:13:03 PM »

But 4633 of these will be pre 1920 (see my above comments). Only 28 listed for the whole of 1920-21 (the last being a Lancashire Fusilier who died in March 1921)

dave

absolutely right and a very good description of how it was created

my original point was that if you repeat something often enough, it starts becoming true
“It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply
  to serve as a warning to others."

Offline mack

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Re: army numbers,pals battalions
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2008, 01:35:22 AM »
interesting! i would like to do a project on regimental numbers at some time

in a similar vein, the same poster commented yesterday
Quote
SDGW normally cuts off at or around 11/11/18.

really?  mine records 4691 deaths from the 11/11/18 to the 31/12/1921
starting a project on army numbers,would be very helpful to folks.

mack

Offline mack

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Re: army numbers,pals battalions
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2008, 08:01:22 AM »
chris.
heres a good example of what i mean.
pte 31273 john grice and pte 31281 peter ford
both joined the 18th batt,john on 1-6-15 and peter on 2-6-15
both were posted to the 25th res batt on 30-8-15
they both embarked for france,on xmas eve and sent to the 30th infantry brigade on xmas day.
they were original members of the 18th batt,their original numbers,were pte 11331 peter ford and pte 11323 john grice
neither man had set foot out of england prior to going to france on xmas eve,but for some unknown reason,they were both renumbered before they embarked for france.
both were buried alive togethor by a trench mortar shell[see kingos "safe place to shelter thread"]
both were awarded a 1915 star
its very possible that pte 31261 a.webster is also one of the originals,he was also killed in this incident

mack

Offline Anthony W Lyons

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Re: army numbers,pals battalions
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2010, 11:33:36 AM »
Example of the Numbering, this is my grandad and his numbers are as follows.
He was already in France in August 1914

JAMES LYONS 2ND BATT MANCHESTERS---8480/369412?