Author Topic: Current Research  (Read 299 times)

Offline Gingerfreak

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Current Research
« on: November 21, 2021, 12:47:37 PM »
To the moderators - If this post is in the wrong area please feel free to move it.

Current research tasks:
1/ Soldiers Posted into 1/5th Battalion Manchester Regt - 95% completed
2/ Soldiers Posted out of 1/5th Battalion - 20% completed
3/ Desertions & Crimes - Whole army,  10% completed.
4/ 1915 Medal Roll Summaries - 15% completed.
5/ Officers Commissioned into Manchester Battalions - 1% completed.
6/ Pre Gallipoli chapter - (Volunteers, South Africa, Territorial Force) 75%.
7/ Restoration of photographs - ongoing
8/ Transcription of Newspaper articles - Wigan Examiner & Observer - Up to March 1916 - Completed, Times Newspaper - 20% (Includes casualty lists), Leigh and Manchesters papers TBC.


If anyone wants information, feel free to ask.
 

Offline Pete Th

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2021, 01:08:53 PM »
Hi, do you have Ernest Pollard in your research. Extract from A District at War by Neil Drum and Pete Thomas:

Ernest Pollard – Killed in action 7th August 1915

Private Ernest Pollard (Service no. 2818) served with the 1st/5th Battalion (Territorial Force), The Manchester Regiment, 127th Brigade, 42nd (East Lancashire) Division.

Ernest was born in early 1894 at Partington, the son of Edward and Mary Ann Pollard. In 1901 the family were living at Manchester Road, Partington, and by 1911 they were at Ivy Cottage, Bailey Lane, Partington. Immediately prior to the outbreak of war the family were living at 2 Bob’s Lane, Cadishead. He worked at the CWS Soap Works and was a member of the Partington Wesleyan Men’s Bible Class. His sister, Mrs G.W. Taylor lived at 9 Clarendon Road, Swinton and her husband served with the Army Service Corps (Motor Transport Service) in France.

Ernest enlisted at Wigan into the Manchester Regiment in November 1914 and was the first person in the Partington district to enlist. He went to training camp in Egypt shortly afterwards. He arrived in Gallipoli on 22nd June 1915 as part of a reinforcement draft.

He was killed in action on Saturday, 7th August 1915 during a renewed attack by the 42nd Division on Helles. He is commemorated on the Helles Memorial, Gallipoli.

In January 1916, the Reverend James Todd of Sale Wesleyan Church held a memorial service at Partington Church for Ernest Pollard and Joseph Arrowsmith who had died on 28th December 1915. The service is described in more detail in the obituary for Joseph Arrowsmith. Ernest’s brother, James, served with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers and was later drowned in May 1917 when a troopship was torpedoed off the coast of Italy. Both brothers were well respected in the district. They belonged to the Partington Wesleyan Church and were listed on the church’s Roll of Honour. As well as his entry on the Irlam and Cadishead War Memorial, he is also commemorated on the St Mary’s Church Partington War Memorial.
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

Offline Gingerfreak

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2021, 03:07:15 PM »
Dear Pete

Yes I have Ernest Pollard in the database. He would have completed part of his training in Wigan with the 2/5th. The first drafts were volunteers, and as you've stated, travelled to Egypt and onto Gallipoli. If you work the dates backwards,
His disebarkation date states the 22nd June 1915. It took roughly three days to get from Egypt to Gallipoli.
His last day in Egypt would have been on or around the 17/18th June 1915. He was part of the first draft of 100 other ranks and 1 officer.
The attack you mentioned was the second large scale Divisional attack on the turkish lines. This attack was against the Turkish trench systems around the Vineyard. The vineyard is next to the Krithia road.
By August 10th 1915, the war diary states that out of the 100 ORs
10 were KIA
32 WIA
13 missing
6 were sick.
in total 61 men (61%).

At this point in time, the Divisions were hemorrhaging men and the focus of Britain's efforts was on the Western Front in France. Divisions had been reduced in strength to Battalions, battalions down to companies. Reinforcements were few in number and not in the quantities to sustain continous offensive operations.  This would be the last large attack carried out by the allied forces. The targets were the G numbered system of turkish trenches. G10 to G13/F13. If you look at the trench map, the trenches tha had been captured by the British in earlier advances, and are efectively surrounded by turkish trench systems. This allowed the Turks to enfilade the British. This is known as a killing box. 

Small raids and skirmishes continued, but the Turkish forces knew that they could afford to hold the line and then counter attack. The biggest enemy for both beliigerants was disease. The bodies couldn't be buried and flies were everwhere. Dysentry was on the increase and men where physically weakened by it. By December the enemy was the cold.

Joseph Arrowsmith served with the 8th Battalion Kings Rifles. He was killed at Ypres on 28th December 1915.

I haven't gone too town here. Other's will quickly jump in and add thier expansive knowledge on the subject. From all of the information your provided, you should be able to form a picture on Ernest's experience. If you have anymore questions, please feel free to message me.

Hope this helps
Regards.

Offline themonsstar

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2021, 07:07:30 AM »
Mr Gingerfreak.

If you come across any of my postcards or bits to the 5th Bn The Manchester Regt, which I have posted over the years, you have my permission to use them. Of this site.

Roy.  PS do you have a name other then GF.

Offline Gingerfreak

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2021, 11:03:51 PM »
Dear Roy

Thank you for the courteous response and thank you for the permission.If I see any images that will be usefull, I will,of course, cite any publications and images and give the owners the correct recognition, which they rightly deserve.

Gingerfreak is the wife's nickname for me, it usually has " you, expletive, gingerfreak'. true love, you can't beat it.
My nickname/name is Ginge. I don't use my Sunday name at all.

Regards

Offline Krithia Spur

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2021, 05:54:08 PM »
Hi Pete TH,

Just to add to Gingerfreak's post:

The 5th Manchesters attacked trenches H.11a and H.11b on the west bank of the West Krithia Nullah several times, on both the 6th and 7th August. These trenches were about 400 yards to the west of the Vineyard and had been attacked before on 4th June [when they were taken but later relented after the Turkish counter attacks on the 6th June] and also on the 18/19th June which ended in failure.

For the attack on the 7th August the 5th Manchesters were reinforced by two officers and 100 men from C Company, 9th Manchester - after suffering heavy losses in the attacks of the previous day.

A book I have recently published - the details of which are given in the 'Publications' section of the forum - would be I am sure of great interest. It is the memoir of a Manchester brigade signaller, Alec Riley,  who was with the 5th Manchesters during the battle and describes in graphic detail the cost.

His description of the casualties dragging themselves to the battalion aid post and his recounting of  Brigadier Lawrence begging [with tears in his eyes] Div. HQ to stop the attacks - are both incredibly moving.....

If you need any more information on the book or the battle/terrain feel free to ask.

Mike
   

Offline Pete Th

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2021, 09:02:44 PM »
Thanks Mike, much appreciated.

Kind regards
Pete
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

Offline Pete Th

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2021, 09:05:14 PM »
Hi Gingerfreak, do you have any information on Ernest and Frederick Chadwick? Asking for a friend.

Thanks in advance
Pete
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

Offline Gingerfreak

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2021, 11:43:51 PM »
Dear Pete

Here's the basics
Ser No 1523 Pte Ernest Chadwick - Died of wounds -7th August 1915
Ser No 1524  (1917 Ser No: 200168) Pte Frederick Chadwick - Promoted to Cpl - Died of wounds 20th Oct 1918.
Both men disembarked on 06 May 1915.

There's a newspaper clipping in the Wigan Observer, dated 26th June 1915 pg.6
In all, there are 11 'Chadwicks' that served with the 1/5th Battalion during the war.
3 Died of Wounds
2 Discharged - Wounded
3 Posted into the 1/5th from other Manchester Battalions
3 Enlisted into the 5th Battalion after Gallipoli. (post 1916).

I'm not going to add the street address, occupations etc in a public forum. If you need anymore info,feel free to message me.

Offline charlie

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2021, 07:54:52 AM »
Quote from: Gingerfreak link=topic=11367.msg73216#msg73216 date=1637711031
I'm not going to add the street address, occupations etc in a public forum. 
[/quote

Hi GF
I really do not understand why not, it is nothing that cannot be found elsewhere in the public domain. We are an open an friendly forum that shares what information we have. It is appreciated when this attitude is reciprocated by all.

Charlie


Offline Gingerfreak

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2021, 01:30:24 PM »
Simply because: almost everything I write in detail is either a) disparaged or b) criticised, or told that its not welcome. Please feel free to trawl my posts, comments and read the reactions.  This isn't just this site, most historical forums and sites are the same, the Great War Forum included. The admin team from a Manchester facebook group removed me without a reason.  You also have people copying work and then passing it off as thier own. This occured on the Great War Forum. An Adminstrator tried to pass my work off as his research. I'm not accusing anyone of this on this forum, but historians are fickle creatures and are (from personal experience) extremely 'passionate', (another word for territorial), and are not open to sharing thier research.

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2021, 05:44:42 PM »
Hi GF,
I've tripped over myself in the past and not provided adequate credit to other people in research.  Members of the forum quietly messaged me and my omissions were promptly corrected and everyone goes on their merry way.
We have cases of non-commemoration where I believe people have taken our research and claimed cases for themselves.  Initially I found this distasteful but now I recognise saving £7 on a DC.  More importantly I don't care too much how the memory of the men who served in the Regiment is perpetuited - so long as it is properly respected.
Keep up your good work and you don't need to be defensive with members of the forum.  If you have an axe to grind - this may happen - send out a DM to keep everything calm. 
I have greater interest in the Pals and Somme than the Territorials and Gallipoli but wish you well with the book.  The more records that are shared can only lead to greater knowledge and reciprocation.
Tim
ps please have a look at the Terrier non-comms.  You may have some records that could determine cases.
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/

Offline mack

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Re: Current Research
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2021, 06:13:11 PM »
hello GF

i am one of the three founder member of this forum along with my two pals chris+roy,we created it to keep alive the memory of the regiment and all those who served in it,but its most important function is helping folks with their enquiries.

we dont steal or pass off other peoples research as our own,we dont need to,we have a archive thats literally bursting,if we borrow stuff we always ask peoples permission,if folks want to use our material,all we ask is that they acknowledge our forum,what we dont tolerate is those who nick other folks material and pass it off as their own,they get their arse kicked off our forum.

your experiences on other forums is nothing to do with this forum,nobody has critiised you or passed any rude comments about your threads,you have been free to get on with your posts with no hassle at all.

regarding the enquiry by pete about ernest+frederick chadwick,out of courtesy he approached you instead of me because your a 5th battalion researcher,hes was asking for a friend,hes wasnt fishing for info for another one of his books,but no problem,i sent him the info he needed about the two brothers

enjoy your stay

mack
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 09:02:24 AM by mack »