Author Topic: Private Joseph Brooks  (Read 579 times)

Offline adrianjb01

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Private Joseph Brooks
« on: June 14, 2020, 06:36:19 PM »
Hi
Wondered if anyone can help me with information regarding my Grandfather?
I have been trying to find more about his role and locations in WW1 rather unsuccessfully, until I came across information a few weeks ago. Wasn't even sure of his Regiment a relation told me he thought it was Kings Liverpool.
I found a local newspaper article ( Ramsbottom Observer) from July 2016.  A paragraph quoting his father informed the paper that Pte Joseph Brooks of "Manchester Pals" had been wounded in action and transferred to a Military Hospital in Newport. This gave me a bit of a lead and I found more information on forces Record website. Here I found a document ( WO 372/3/95713)of a Pte Joseph Brooks Manch R 32571 & L'pool R 95273. This is possibly a strong link to my Grandfather. There is also a link to another document which relates to this person from Bury being Listed as "Wounded" on the Casualty List 30/08/1916 issued by the War Office. This would tie in with my Grandfather. Just wondering if anyone can throw any light so I could trace more information regarding his battalion, locations, etc.
Many thanks in advance for reading this post and any help I might get from it.
Kind regards
Adrian

Offline charlie

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2020, 05:49:48 AM »
Hello Adrian and welcome to the forum.

The Joseph Brooks you mention, according to the medal rolls, served with the 16th Bn Manchesters and 12th Bn Liverpool Regt.

Do have any further details regarding your Grandfather such as his address, parents/wife‘s names, date of birth etc.

Charlie

Offline adrianjb01

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2020, 05:55:24 PM »
Hello Charlie
Thanks for the welcome and the swift response to my query.
Regarding more information
Joseph Bruce Brooks, Baptism date  4th October 1896 ( poss about 3 weeks old when baptised), Patmos Methodist Church, Ramsbottom (closed in 1956)
Address at the time 21 Peel Brow, Ramsbottom.
 In the census dated 1911 Joseph  was down as being aged about 14

Father, Edmund Brooks
Mother, Betsy Jane Brooks
I have also attached the newspaper cutting from July 1916 regarding the wounding.

He was a grocers lad for Cooperative society think he returned to that role when he came home

His father was Innkeeper at The Wellington Inn, Railway Street, Ramsbottom & I believe he returned here after convalescing. Also heard from a relative that when my grandfather returned home to the pub, his father served drinks all round to celebrate his sons homecoming, pub was raided and his father lost his licence ( still trying to find evidence of this though).
Kind regards
Adrian
 



Online mack

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2020, 08:49:50 PM »
hiya Adrian
I think Charlie is right,32571 is your grandfather
born 15-9-1896

mack

Offline charlie

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2020, 09:13:37 PM »
He married Mary Halliday 3rd Qtr 1918 so was obviously in the UK before the armistice. The 1939 register records him living at 5 Garnett St, Ramsbottom with his wife and children, his occupation is given as Grocery branch manager.

Mack/Tim is there a pension record for him?

Charlie

Offline adrianjb01

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2020, 09:49:06 PM »
Hi Charlie / Mack
Many thanks, spot on my grandparents house 5 Garnett St, Ramsbottom.  Think there might be a minor anomaly, he married Mary Morgan. Only knew him as a child, Always had a smile on his face, as with most never really spoke about his experiences. One thing that seems to stick out in my mind is a family tale of when he was wounded, he was assisted by a German soldier out of the way. How accurate this is haven't a clue?
Found out more in the last week than I have in the last few years as previous research attempts went cold.
Many thanks again
Best Wishes Adrian

Offline charlie

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2020, 05:33:06 AM »
Sorry my fault, married Mary Morgan, 3rd Qtr 1919 so probably still with the BEF till after the armistice.

It was common practice for both sides to use PoWs to help recover the wounded.

Charlie

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2020, 11:26:15 AM »
Hi Adrian,
FMP has an entry for Pte 32571 J Brooks.  He was in the nominal roll of 25th Bttn Altcar Camp, leaving for France on 16 June 1916, aged 19.  Some original members of 16th Bttn were also in the draft. Sgt 7218 C E Forsyth & Cpl 6463 F Bennett.
From other drafts leaving England at this stage, it’s most likely they formed reinforcements in the 2nd /3rd week of July, but there are examples of men arriving with the City Battalions a matter of days before the attack on Montauban on 1/7/1916. Cpl Bennett & Pte 33450 Wm Moore (Effects says 1st July) were killed at Trones Wood with 16th Bttn on 9th July, so this is a strong indicator Joseph was there too. Pte 33679 T W Allen was also in the draft and died of wounds with 16th Bttn at Trones Wood on 10th July.  The absence of casualties from the draft on 1st July suggests they hadn’t joined the Bttn in the assault on 1st July.
I can't see a Pension Card for J Brooks.
Welcome
Tim
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 12:37:27 PM by Tim Bell »
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2020, 11:36:59 AM »
As a long shot, I wonder if Pte 14029 J Brooks of II Pln of 24th Bttn is the same man.  He may have been transferred to 25th Bttn as initially under age.  Speculation, but this chap had no medal entry with that number. It's very possible this draft were mainly Derby Scheme men. They all seem to have been posted to 16th Bttn.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 12:39:33 PM by Tim Bell »
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
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Offline adrianjb01

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2020, 08:02:46 PM »
Hi Tim
Thanks for welcome and latest update.

My older Cousin  remembers  Joseph taking him to Liverpool on the train, poss late 50's  there was a definite link and fondness of being there. Maybe Altcar is the link? Plus with his age of 19 at time of leaving for France. I Will follow it up with him to see if he has anymore knowledge of his trips.  Pte 14029, would his reg number have changed if for example transferred  to 16btn  at Trones Wood or  from the 16 btn to the 25 btn before going to Altcar for training?
Many thanks for all input.
Kind regards
Adrian

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2020, 02:52:20 PM »
Hi Adrian,
32571 was his number with 25th & 16th Bttns.  It is possible he had a different number prior to 25th, although it's more likely this was his initial number as a Derby Scheme recruit.  His number changed when he transferred to the KLR.
Tim
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 04:47:23 PM by Tim Bell »
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
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Offline charlie

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2020, 05:04:20 PM »
I would suggest that if 14029 was underage and posted to a reserve battalion, it would have been more likely to the 27th
http://themanchesters.org/25-27%20res%20batt.htm
Charlie

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2020, 09:46:38 AM »
Yes Charlie,
Much more likely route.  I've looked at a few surrounding numbers for Joseph Brooks.  Most likely a Derby Scheme recruit mobilised with 16-19th Bttns, or direct into 25th. 
T
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
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Offline adrianjb01

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2020, 06:05:44 PM »
Tim/Mack/ Charlie
Again many thanks for your time and effort researching on my behalf.  Trones Wood seems a strong link to my grandfathers active service, am now reading / watching with great interest articles surrounding the Manchester Regiments and commencement of the Battle of the Somme. Will keep  this post updated if I come across any more information from family, etc.
Kind regards
Adrian
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 06:45:44 PM by adrianjb01 »

Offline adrianjb01

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Re: Private Joseph Brooks
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2020, 07:22:47 PM »
Hi
Just another query
Tim found info on Joseph on FMP, can you advice if it warrants a subscription to FMP to get this information just for this one query, not sure how much I will get from it?
Also there is a war office diaries publication WO95/2337 ( available on kindle) that covers the WW1, The Somme, Trones Wood offensive, etc, etc, just wondered if there is any feedback regarding whether this is a suitable purchase?

Still chasing up additional information from relatives & hopefully getting a photo of Joseph in uniform in the coming weeks.
Thanks in advance.
Kind regards
Adrian