Author Topic: Researching my grandad  (Read 192 times)

Offline AndreaBellis

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Researching my grandad
« on: May 16, 2020, 06:58:09 PM »
Hi everyone. Briefly I am the granddaughter of James Brown who served with the 8th Manchester regiment during WW2 in Malta. I have tried various ways of discovery but as you can imagine my grandad had a very common name and searching the internet anything has been difficult.
Here's what I know
His name James Brown Pte
Born 27 Sept 1918 in daisy hill westhoughton bolton
Son of John and Mary brown ( again very common names)
He served Malta 1940_42
He was admitted to imtarfa hospital for a brief period. But I don't know why.
He was involved in stealing a pig from a farm and may or may not have been charged.
His best mate was Herbert Greenhalgh 3858177 who died in Malta and is buried at Pembroke military cemetery. ( I regularly lay flowers for him and visit his grave at pembroke on his anniversary
I know they were posted to St Paul's bay and it is actually the area I emmigrated to in 2013. I thought living here in Malta would give me lots of answers but it has been impossible to find even the smallest details.  He may have been based at fort Campbell. It this is just a guess due to location
I found a book Malta at War which contained the only one photo of my grandad stood at the grave of another serviceman in Pembroke cemetery.
Does anyone have any way of locating some information on my grandad?
Or can anyone help with Herbert. All I know of him was he died doing a shift change for my grandad and he was the done of Mr and Mrs j Greenhalgh of Bolton again very common names. But if possible u would like to also research him and find his ancestors.
Thank you for reading this topic tread.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 12:08:49 PM by Timberman »

Offline charlie

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2020, 08:15:34 PM »
Hello Andrea and welcome to the forum,
I would suggest your best course of action would be to apply for his service record.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records

Charlie

Offline mack

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2020, 10:58:15 PM »
hello andrea
theres a book that was written by one of our administrators Robert bonner,its called the Ardwick boys went to malta.

mack

Offline mack

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2020, 12:39:42 AM »
theres also the Manchester regiment image archive[google this]if you type in malta on the archives search box you will find 11 pages,nearly all are pictures of the men

Here is the link https://manchester-regiment.org.uk/index.php
mack
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 04:29:58 AM by charlie »

Offline mack

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2020, 12:53:18 AM »
pte Herbert Greenhalgh lived at 24 Charlesworth ave,bolton[father john]he worked as a cotton winder
born 1-1-1919

your grandfather lived at 324 Hindley rd,westhoughton with his father john,his mother mary,elizabeth had died in January 1931,buried 15th January
occupation.colliery dataller
born 28-9-1918

his oldest full brother Robert brown lived at 340 Hindley rd[wife lily.
full brother William brown

half brother joseph occleshaw
half sister Elizabeth occleshaw
from his mums previous marriage[widowed]

mack

Offline AndreaBellis

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 07:27:31 AM »
Thanks for your replies I own a copy of the ardwick boys went to Malta. It is really informative.
I do know all the details of the brown family I have done extensive research on geneology. It my granddad's military service that is missing.
I am aware that I can access his service record and have previously looked into this. My problem is that I have a problem in that my aunt his daughter refused permission and that is why that avenue has been blocked to me officially.
Thank you for the information about Herbert Greenhalgh. I will do a search on that I formation to confirm. I have a list of possible Herbert's but couldn't find enough on any of them to confirm him. Greenhalgh in bolton is again a very common name.

Offline mack

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2020, 10:51:29 AM »
hiya andrea
you don't need permission from your aunt,is your mum or dad the daughter/son of your grandfather

mack

Offline AndreaBellis

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2020, 10:56:52 AM »
Yes my mum. Unfortunately my mum doesn't want to cause a "rift" with her sister about it so this is why I've hit a stalemate situation.
It's a waiting game for me unfortunately with the probability that the details will be available on the internet before I am next in line as regards to kin.

Offline mack

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2020, 12:02:13 PM »
hiya andrea

many years ago,i helped a lady with her family history,her grandfather was also on malta with the royal lancasters,she also had a similar problem with her uncle who objected to her delving into his military service,this is what she said to him,word for word[her words not mine]

you have no right to order me and my mum around,hes my mums dad as well as yours and hes my grandfather,if you don't like it,you can bugger off.

personally,i don't understand your aunts objections,malta was awarded the George cross for its gallant stand in WW2,your grandfather was part of that gallant history

you mention that your grandfather nicked a pig,is this the reason for her objection,if so,its bloody silly

my dad was fighting in Burma in WW2,and he also nicked a pig,it was two days before xmas,he went before his commanding officer along with his two pals,the three of them were given a proper rollicking and a three day leave pass,which totally surprised my dad,until he found out what was on the officers menu on xmas day

mack

Offline AndreaBellis

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 01:37:58 PM »
Her reasoning are that on returning from service my grandad married my gran who he was seeing before and through the war years.
In his return he was told never to talk about it by my gran. There is a memory of my mum where she thinks she overheard a story when she was a little girl that maybe she has a brother in Malta and this is the reason why the war years were never discussed. This is something we could never find out as true or not.
My grandfather tried many times to return to Malta but my gran always refused.
She finally gave in and a holiday was booked for may 1982. The sad twist of fate is that my grandad died exactly a month before. So he never got to return.
My aunt wants to keep all the "secrets" hidden. She thinks that if they didn't talk about it in life then we shouldn't go looking into it now.
She is more than happy to learn other things about our family history but her dad's military life she is completely opposed to me finding out about.
Plus as I am the only grandaughter and the youngest she thinks my male cousins have more of a right to the information than I do. They own the medals that have now not seen in over 30 years and in all probability not have been lost forever
The pig story was one my grandad told me as a child. He made it sound comedic. He said they were so very hungry they walking into a farm to catch a chicken but a pig came running at them so the took that instead. When they got to the barracks one if the guys was a butcher who did whatever needed doing so they ate well including the officers. But then after eating it they all got into trouble because the local farmer found out somehow.
So this is why i don't know if a charge was made or not.
I even when to the archives here in Malta to see if I could find any reports of the pig theft but sadly I could verify it all all.
He also told us of a plane crash he witnessed where the German pilot was burning. He was told that if they tried to help the man they would be in trouble. So he had to stand by and witness without helping.
My grandad was affected by this as all his life he went out of his way to help others in any way he could. He would never stand by and he instilled in all of us that we were " never to watch something suffer unnecessarily we were always to assist however insignificant we are"

Offline charlie

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2020, 02:36:22 PM »
As your Grandfather died more than 25 years ago, it is not necessary to obtain the NoK‘s permission. The information held is now available to anyone who cares to provide a death certificate and pay the fee.
If I was you I would fill in the „general enquirers“ form and have done with it. No one else needs to know :)

Charlie

Offline mack

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 03:03:31 PM »
hiya andrea
if there was a son,he would only appear in your grandfathers records if the lady had filed a paternity claim,it is a bit of a sensitive issue for your family,your mum can apply for his records if she wants,you don't have to tell the rest of the family,just send them a copy of your grandads marriage certificate,thats basically all you need plus his regiment

with regards to your male cousins being the only ones entitled to the info,they have no right to say that,you and your mum have as much right as anyone else,in fact your mum has more right than your male cousins because shes his daughter

the only advice I can give you is if your mums ok with it,apply for his records,but keep it to yourself

mack
ps don't be bullied by others


Offline mack

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2020, 03:14:32 PM »
As your Grandfather died more than 25 years ago, it is not necessary to obtain the NoK‘s permission. The information held is now available to anyone who cares to provide a death certificate and pay the fee.
If I was you I would fill in the „general enquirers“ form and have done with it. No one else needs to know :)

Charlie
I agree with Charlie
if it is true about the son,you haven't lost anything,youve gained another uncle and your mums got another brother

mack

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: Researching my grandad
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2020, 01:53:06 PM »
I also agree with Charlie - your granddad's papers are freely available to the general public, so I'd just pay the £30 and apply for them.
Good luck.
Bob B