Author Topic: hospital ships at gallipoli  (Read 1358 times)

Offline mack

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2019, 07:20:08 PM »
pte 2672 Arthur slater was shot in the face by a rifle bullet,which injured his nose+cheek.

he may not have been evacuated right away,or he may have been originally put aboard a hospital transfer ship awaiting a transfer to a hospital ship bound for Egypt or malta,a hospital transfer ship was used to evacuate men from Gallipoli and usually taken to lemnos for transfer to bigger hospital ships like the aquitannia,the Dunluce castle which was operating at Gallipoli in September,was a transfer ship for the hospital ship brittanic

mack
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 02:21:53 AM by mack »

Offline mack

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2019, 08:30:04 PM »
My grandfather, Arthur Slater of the 1/9th Manchesters was shot in the face on Sept 9, 1915 in Gallipoli and evacuated to hospital in Egypt. It took 10 days from being shot to his admission at the No 5 Canadian Stationary Hospital in Cairo and unfortunately I do not know which ship he was transported on.

There is an interesting book, Fifty thousand miles on a Hospital Ship by 'Padre' which is available at https://archive.org/details/fiftythousandmil00wall which describes what it must have been like for those being transported.  The officer mentioned on page 108 is undoubtedly Lt. Forshaw of the 1/9th Manchesters, https://archive.org/details/fiftythousandmil00wall/page/108. I believe the ship was the Gurkha but I do not know for sure.

Peter
hiya peter
your grandfather arrived in cairo on 24th September,15 days after being wounded[not 10 days]

mack

Offline PJS

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2019, 08:51:17 PM »
Mack,

Yes, you are right. Too much eggnog (me, not him).

Peter

Note: His surname was Slater (not Carter per your previous post).
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 10:56:23 PM by PJS »

Offline mack

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2019, 11:57:42 PM »
Mack,

Yes, you are right. Too much eggnog (me, not him).

Peter

Note: His surname was Slater (not Carter per your previous post).
sorry peter ive amended it.

mack

Offline mack

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2019, 04:55:51 AM »
this is a list of hospital ships that are recorded as having Manchester regt casualties on board at Gallipoli
there are no official records of the exact dates of where and when these ships were,the following info has been extracted from soldiers and sailors service records and other sources by me,further research is needed,the dates listed are where this ship was on that day

HS salta.11th august loading wounded at helles,on 16th she as at sea,24th September malta

HS Dunluce castle.24th may gaba tepe,26th may mudros,27th june at mudros and still there on 30th,7th august Anzac cove,12th august arrived at malta from mudros,14th September she was between cape helles and imbros,27th September malta,3rd December en route to malta

HS rewa.29th june at helles,1st july en route to malta,13th july at helles,16th july at mudros,19th july en route from mudros to Alexandria,2nd November arrived malta

HS.somali.5th june at helles,10th june malta,27th june helles,2nd july malta,31st july malta,22nd September malta

HS.soudan.30th may arrived at malta for service at gallipoli,15th june mudros,7th august helles then to Alexandria,13th august arrived malta,22nd august docked at southampton

HS.aquitania.this ship was at mudros in September and October,she always embarked sick and wounded for transportation to England,she re-coaled and took on water and supplies at naples and embarked sick and wounded from other hospital ships.

HS.sicilia.15th may at helles then sailed to Alexandria,16th june,between Gallipoli and malta,28th july malta.

HS.formosa,23rd june,commissioned as hospital ship at malta,21st September port said

HS Cawdor castle.10th august Alexandria,27th august mudros,10th September at Gibraltar

HS.canada.6th june loading wounded at helles,29th august at malta

HS.dongola.7th july helles,11th july lemnos,30th December malta

HS.gascon.23rd may gaba tepe,24th to 27th may mudros,30th may at Anzac,18th july at malta,13th august near lemnos,24th august mudros,1st September Alexandria

HS.guildford castle.26th april Y.beach,21st September 5 miles from lemnos

HS.delta.6th august Anzac cove,9th august suvla bay,4th September between cape helles and malta.11th September off coast Gibraltar heading for England[burial of 2/Lt woodhouse 1/9th manchesters]

HS.ascania.3rd june mudros,8th june Alexandria,6th august helles

HS.southland.18th may arrived malta from Alexandria,6th june disembarking dead and wounded at lemnos then sailed for Alexandria,9th june Alexandria

HS.asturias.12th july helles,9th august 5 miles south of imbros[sailed from suvla bay]

HS.caledonian.27th august,gibraltar

HS.galeka.26th may Alexandria,18th august cape helles

HS.grantully castle.27th march port said,4th june helles,9th june mudros,19th/20th july helles

HS.caledonia.27th august gibraltar
« Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 03:04:47 AM by mack »

Offline PhilipG

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2019, 07:38:15 AM »
Mack,

Excellent and useful research.      PhilipG.

Offline PhilipG

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2019, 01:05:10 PM »
Mack,
I note that the Dunluce Castle was at sea early in 1917 when she was signalled to stop by the crew of a surfaced U-boat.   Found to be sailing under the terms of the Hague Convention the ship was then allowed to proceed.    I wonder if the terms of the convention allowed the position of the enemy submarine to be signalled to the naval authorities?     PhilipG.

Offline mack

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2019, 02:34:06 PM »
Mack,
I note that the Dunluce Castle was at sea early in 1917 when she was signalled to stop by the crew of a surfaced U-boat.   Found to be sailing under the terms of the Hague Convention the ship was then allowed to proceed.    I wonder if the terms of the convention allowed the position of the enemy submarine to be signalled to the naval authorities?     PhilipG.
a hospital ship is not allowed to interfere with or aid any side,otherwise she is a legitimate target,i think reporting a U.boats position falls into this,but it would be reported in the captains log,i doubt wether the U.boat skipper would hang around long enough to find out

mack

Offline PhilipG

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2019, 05:07:10 PM »
Mack,

Thank you.  The converse comes to mind.    If the vessel is ignoring the Hague Convention what does the U-boat commander do next?   I suppose after the ship is abandoned and the boarding party is recalled to the submarine, the ship would be sunk by gunfire?     PhilipG.

Offline mack

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2019, 06:34:24 PM »
hiya Philip
hospital ships must be clearly marked and not used for military purposes,she must not interfere or hamper enemy vessels,a U.boat captain is allowed to report the position of the ship and she must give medical aid to any nationality friend or foe

a enemy vessel can legitimately fire on a hospital ship if theres a grave breach of rules or if the ship is trying to avoid inspection or capture,if the ship is breaking the rules,she must be given reasonable time to comply,if she doesn't they can enforce the ship to comply,if this doesn't happen it can be captured,they are entitled to take prisoners if they want

there were many cases where wounded men were still carrying arms while being embarked on hospital ships,the captains would always take these arms away,officers with side arms were the main culprits,if there was just one single man carrying a weapon,this would make the ship a legitimate target.

I don't think they can evacuate and then sink the ship,because this would mean that wounded and sick men would be in open boats at sea,there wouldn't be room in the lifeboats for all of them anyway,fortunately,the situation never arose in the war

mack

Offline PhilipG

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2019, 08:00:05 PM »
Mack,

Thank you.  PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2019, 08:22:17 PM »
Mack, Philip,
The situation did occur on 26th May 1917 in the Med. At the end of March 1917 the Germans announced that they would sink Hospital Ships in the Med as they were considered to be breaching international law by carrying troops and ammunition. The British response to this was to provide them with escorts of two Destroyers, they were also sail a zig-zag course and darken at night the same as if they were troopships. From that time on they surrendered their immunity to attack.

At 7pm the Dover Castle was struck by a torpedo, by 8pm all the casualties had been placed in boats and were clear of the ship and were picked up by the Destroyer Cameleon. Of the 841 casualties and crew only six Stokers were killed, presumably by the explosion.

Charlie

Offline mack

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2019, 10:56:58 PM »
that was a torpedo attack Charlie,theres never been a incident where the germans have ordered them to abandon ship and then sunk it

mack

Offline mack

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2019, 04:12:15 AM »
lemnos was only used as a hospital base for light cases for men who would be fit again within 28 days,that changed after the heavy fighting in early august.

hospital ships at helles
before august,the hospital ships at helles would embark its casualties from barges,trawlers and any other boats employed in conveying sick+wounded,once aboard,the medical staff would assess each case,the walking cases who were deemed to be only slightly wounded or sick,were separated from those who were badly wounded or very ill,the walking cases were taken off and transferred to transports and taken to lemnos,the severe cases were retained on the ship,ready for evacuation to Alexandria or malta,some ships sailed directly to alex+malta,others made stops at lemnos to drop off casualties who had been re-assessed as likely to recover in 28 days,the room onboard the ships left by these cases,would be filled with cases from lemnos whos health had become serious,sadly,those who had died or were going to die were also disembarked,on the short voyage to lemnos,some ships stopped during the day to bury those who had died,during these trips to lemnos,the hospital ships officers had to keep a sharp lookout at night for transports returning from lemnos who were sailing without lights.

Offline mack

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Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2019, 05:53:34 AM »
manchesters known to have died on hospital ships at Gallipoli
 
1962 Thomas,wilfred Sutcliffe,47 Langdale ave levenshulme,1/8th HS sicilia 9th june age 17
1817 George,ashton hill,9 Woodleigh st blackley,1/6th,HS Somalia 7th june age 22
Cpl 1512 Alfred percy francis veitch,44 wood st southport 1/6th HS Esmerelda 10th august age 24
1741 Arthur knight,moss grove Urmston 1/6th HS Guildford castle 11th may age 19
1805 William,henry Rothwell 42 mustard st,oldham 1/10th HS Soudan 28th june age 21
CSM 295 Alfred Wilcock leigh,1/7th,70 Richmond st,moss side HS Tunisian 8th august age 37
2570 Harold Bradley,"cumballa"alkrington middleton 1/10th HS galeka age 22
L/Cpl 1665 George Elliott broome1/6th, 18 seedley park rd Salford HS delta 10th September age 21
2252 john Kelsey 2 Rochdale rd Todmorden1/6th, HS Tunisian 11th august age 25
2718 Benjamin shatwell 4 birch st ashton 1/9th HS Formosa 13th august age 22
2342 Thomas Sweeney 28 lord st hindsford,1/5th HS southland 9th june age 29
1974 john William greatorex 18 cecil grove gorton 1/8th HS southland 12th june
1866 Wilfred holt 75 nile st Oldham 1/10th HS somali 7th june age 19
2371 William Thomas Talbot 67 Bedford square leigh 1/5th HS Soudan 9th june age 31
2145 henry plevin 227 Liverpool st west,salford 1/6th HS sicilia age 28
2347 Richard Kerfoot wolstencroft 581 fifth st old Trafford 1/7th HS sicilia age 27
2087 john burgess 310 high king st hurst 1/10th HS sicilia 10th june age 20
2306 percy ridings 121 crickets lane ashton 1/9th HS delta 6th September age 18
429 William Alfred nuttall 30 Lancashire st newton heath 1/7th HS sicilia 14h may age 43
sgt 625 Alfred hand 66 viaduct st Beswick 1/8th HS somali 5th june age 38
2297 Samuel mather,dukinfield 1/9th HS rewa 22nd November
drummer 1446 Edmund jack cocker 46 carter st CoM 1/8th HS rewa 3rd july age 20
2/Lt percy aspden woodhouse Adelaide villas blackburn 1/9th HS delta 11th september age 23
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 12:12:00 AM by mack »