Author Topic: hospital ships at gallipoli  (Read 1361 times)

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,927
hospital ships at gallipoli
« on: November 16, 2019, 10:32:06 PM »
if anyone had a relative who was on one of these ships at Gallipoli,we would welcome your imput

mack
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 11:52:20 AM by charlie »

Offline Pete Th

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,568
Re: hospital ships at gallioli
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2019, 08:40:02 AM »
Mack, my gg uncle, Charles Roberts (Private 13668, 11th Manchester’s at Suvla Bay) was in the September casualty lists. He must have been on one of the ships but I don’t know which one). It took almost 2 years for him to return to active service.

Regards
Pete
Remembering

Pte Sidney Lee (36719), 2nd Battalion, Worcestershire Regt - dow 18.02.17
Sgt Charles Roberts (13668), 11th Bn, Manchester Regiment - kia 18.05.18
Bombardier John Hesford (70065), 147th Heavy Battery, RGA dow - 04.09.18
Pte Sidney Lee (4131324), 8th Bn, Cheshire Regiment -  kia 12.03.41

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,927
Re: hospital ships at gallioli
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2019, 02:25:25 PM »
following Philips query about whether brigadier noel lee was on the same hospital ship as some of his men from his brigade,its very likely he was,two hospital ships that could be possibles were

HS somali
she was receiving men from the fighting on 4th june,she was at malta on 10th june disembarking her wounded,three manchesters died on this vessel on the 10th june
sgt 1120 Samuel fallows.1/10th
pte 2392 Charles,edwin robinson.1/8th
pte 2092 walter carter[alias jinks]1/10th
all are buried in pieta cemetery
if the ship was within the limits of the island,she would not be allowed to do sea burials because of the likelihood the bodies may get washed up on the coast

HS Soudan
she was also receiving wounded at the same time,and was also disembarking wounded at malta on 10th june

mack

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,441
Re: hospital ships at gallioli
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2019, 03:16:41 PM »
Mack,

Again some excellent research.    Sadly, General Lee's eldest son - Captain Noel Esmond Lee, 8th KRRC -  was killed in action on the 24th August 1917.   His name is on the Tyne Cot Memorial.

PhilipG.

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,225
Re: hospital ships at gallioli
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2019, 08:49:41 AM »
An extract from Vol 1 Gallipoli of the OH regarding Hospital Ships and casualties.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 08:52:47 AM by charlie »

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,225
Re: hospital ships at gallioli
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2019, 08:50:35 AM »
Next page

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,225
Re: hospital ships at gallioli
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2019, 08:51:13 AM »
Next page

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,927
Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2019, 10:49:27 AM »
the black ships mentioned in this article were transports,most of the time they were used for sick and lighly wounded cases,we tried to legitimise them by calling them ambulance carriers,i have seen cases where wounded and sick men were sharing the ship with troops,horses and military stores,in all fairness to the turks,they were quite within their rights to sink them.

in the early weeks of the campaign,they couldn't cope with the huge casualties they had suffered,they were using these vessels to transport the sick+wounded back to England,the reason was that the hospitals at malta and Egypt had become overwhelmed by the sheer number of casualties,one soldier described his nightmare journey to England on one of these vessels,he said that the men were all laid out on the open deck with just a blanket between them and the deck,many died by the time they reached England,he said there were only two doctors,4 nurses and a handful of medical orderlies to care for hundreds of men,each morning,they would stack up the dead and throw them overboard.

mack
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 11:51:17 AM by charlie »

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,927
Re: hospital ships at gallioli
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2019, 11:59:44 AM »
general hamiltons comments in this article about the arrangements for the wounded should they be left behind if they were forced to re-embark
if such a event happened,they may as well have shot the wounded,because the turks would have killed them anyway.

the only time the turks took prisoners was  when they wanted info about fresh landings of troops,the german officers attatched to the turks at Gallipoli were appalled by their conduct towards prisoners

theres the case of 2/Lt Thomas granger,he was left in a large shell hole with 20+men of the 1/7th manchesters,only 3 men as well as himself are known to have been taken into captivity

mack

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,225
Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2019, 02:18:18 PM »
And Appendix 11

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,441
Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2019, 03:06:05 PM »
Incredible Mack.  And I thought such casualties would be "Consigned to the Deep" with appropriate consideration and honour.    PhilipG.

hiya Philip
I think it was just his way of speaking,i doubt wether a ships captain would treat the dead in such a manner

I recall a Manchester soldier describing the burial of his captain,he said hes now got a piece of real estate all to himself

mack
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 05:30:20 PM by mack »

Offline PJS

  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2019, 12:15:10 PM »
My grandfather, Arthur Slater of the 1/9th Manchesters was shot in the face on Sept 9, 1915 in Gallipoli and evacuated to hospital in Egypt. It took 10 days from being shot to his admission at the No 5 Canadian Stationary Hospital in Cairo and unfortunately I do not know which ship he was transported on.

There is an interesting book, Fifty thousand miles on a Hospital Ship by 'Padre' which is available at https://archive.org/details/fiftythousandmil00wall which describes what it must have been like for those being transported.  The officer mentioned on page 108 is undoubtedly Lt. Forshaw of the 1/9th Manchesters, https://archive.org/details/fiftythousandmil00wall/page/108. I believe the ship was the Gurkha but I do not know for sure.

Peter

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,441
Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2019, 05:21:02 PM »
Peter,

Many thanks for your info. - most helpful.    Occasionally, I have come across books written by padres.  Two I recall, one by a Rev. Owen who was on the Aisne with the B.E.F. in 1914, and another by the Rev. R.E.Grice - Hutchinson MC who was with 32 Div.   Their books were most helpful in research.

Your mention that it took 10 days for your relative to reach a hospital in Cairo does seem a long time.    As it seems it took 2/3 days sailing to reach Egypt by hospital ship from the Peninsular, I suppose we must allow "turn round time" too, in respect of the carrying vessels' journeys.      Thanks again.     PhilipG.

Offline PJS

  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2019, 05:53:58 PM »
Philip,

My grandfather was shot in September when the casualties dipped substantially from their peak in August and I suspect that since his wound was not immediately life threatening he was put behind the more serious cases which caused some delay.



The following excerpt from SURGERY ON THE GALLIPOLI PENINSULA, the British Medical Journal, September 25, 1915 by Capt. John Morley, RAMC provides some context on the chain of evacuation. The full article is here: https://pjs-bucket-n-virginia.s3.amazonaws.com/BMJsept25GallipoliArticleJM.pdf.

From the clearing station the wounded are embarked on lighters at a landing stage that is perforce used also for the unloading of ammunition and supplies for the army. These lighters are towed by steam pinnaces to the hospital ship that lies a mile or two off the shore, and, without changing stretchers, are slung on to the ship by cranes. Except during and shortly after an action, the wounded are sent off to the hospital ship twice in the twenty-four hours. The hospital ships fill up in ”peace times,” as the weeks of siege warfare by artillery and sniping in the intervals between assault are called, in a week or ten days (after an action much more rapidly), and then leave for Egypt or Malta, taking three or four days respectively to reach the base. Minor cases are not taken to the hospital ships at all, but are either detained in the field ambulances or sent in small boats to be treated in stationary hospitals.


Peter

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,441
Re: hospital ships at gallipoli
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2019, 06:30:12 PM »
Thank you, Peter.   Most enlightening.  My uncle was in the Gallipoli campaign with the Hawke Battalion R.N.D.   Alas, when the opportunity to ask appropriate questions was available I failed to do so.   However, in 1938 when it appeared a conflict was looming, both my father (Lancs. Fus.) and uncle did give me some accounts of their WW1 service which was helpful later when His Majesty sent for me.    PhilipG.