Author Topic: Burial Exhumation Reports  (Read 1094 times)

Offline Richarda

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Burial Exhumation Reports
« on: October 23, 2019, 11:14:57 AM »
I am attempting to locate the correct grave for my Grandfather Sam Ashworth Regt No 24907 killed at Gavelle Switch no mans land on the 16 September 1917. it is possible he is buried in the Sunken Road Cemetery at Famboux. CWGC suggests it might be so since several soldiers from the 12th Battallion  D company are buried there. Any suggestions please.
Richard Ashworth
23rd October 2019

Offline mack

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 03:58:42 PM »
4 of the men involved in the midnight raid on 16th sept who were killed or died of wounds are buried side by side in sunken road cemetery,sam and his sergeant reuben Jacobs are still missing,there were no casualties in the raid itself,the casualties occurred in no mans land by trench mortar fire on the way back to the lines,a few prisoners were also killed,its possible that there was no body to recover,a trench mortar shell can turn a man into nothing.

mack

Offline Richarda

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 07:39:05 PM »
Dear Mack,
 Thanks for the quick reply, there are some unknown graves in the Sunken Road Cemetery,is it possible one of them is Sams? Is there any exhumation reports available or burial dates for the unknown graves, do we know when the 4 soldiers named were buried in the cemetery?
Cheers
Richarda
23rd October 2019

Offline mack

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 08:13:52 PM »
hiya richarda
as far as I know,these are the original graves in this cemetery,they may be amongst the unknowns,but we will never know

mack

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 09:48:03 PM »
There’s a chap on Great War Forum who has worked out how to compile a schedule of all burials in each cemetery. I managed it previously, but forgotten. Courtesy Richard Laughton http://www.mediafire.com/file/ctqw4lbwi9etow3/Sunken_Road_Cemetery_GRRF_Binder.pdf/file
As Mack says they all seem to be original burials. Mainly Canadian or Australian.
Richard also has concentration reports, but none shown for Sunken Road.
Welcome to the forum. Why do you suggest Sunken Road?
Tim
Ps if I have the wrong sunken road, sorry
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 09:50:04 PM by Tim Bell »
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Offline charlie

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2019, 08:30:11 AM »
Mack is correct, they are all original burials, there are no concentration or exhumation reports for the cemetery. The burial dates are not recorded, a lot would depend on when the bodies were recovered or where the soldiers died. Someone who was killed in a trench would probably be buried quicker than someone who‘s body had to be recovered from no-mans land. A body could lie in no-mans for months before it was safe to recover it.

Charlie

Offline Richarda

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2019, 01:14:18 PM »
Dear All,
Thanks for the comments, I have looked at the War diary reports for the 8th September Page 121 and the 16th September. Page 123. The 16th states that all five dead men in No mans land were also seen. If four of them were buried together at the Sunken Road Cemetery is it likely that Sam was also buried at the same time? Do we have the grave numbers for all five soldiers ie the four known and any unknown Manchester regiment men?

Cheers
Richarda
24th October 2019

Offline mack

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2019, 04:56:12 PM »
the dead men in no mans land were from the previous raid on 8th September,non of them have a known grave

this is the info I have for your grandfather,you may have most of it

16194 sam ashworth
enlisted 6-1-15
age 27
rubber worker
12th manchesters
discharged as unlikely to be a efficient soldier,he had a rupture
resided 33 lythgoe st,moss side
wife Florence.married st.phillips church 1-12-1906
children
sam 14-1-1908
janet 9-6-09
William 12-11-12
Margaret 27-9-14
re-enlisted 3-7-15
24907 sam ashworth
12th mnchesters
wounded at arras may 1917 invalided home,returned to france just before he was killed
he had previously served a period with the 6th manchesters[militia]before the war,bought himself out
he was always known as sam,not Samuel

mack ;D

Offline Richarda

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2019, 07:36:39 PM »
Dear Mack,
Thanks but is there any way we can find out which men were killed/ trapped on No Mans Land on the 8th. The war diary of the 16th September states that the five men lost on the 8th sept are seen in no mans land on the 16th  . Are they not the same Men shown as killed on the 16th September?
Cheers
Richarda
24th October 2019
PS Roll of Honour shows Sam as being killed on the 8th,but CWGC states killed on the 16th Sept??

Offline mack

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2019, 08:40:45 PM »
killed/died 8th sept

4346 john,james cowin
30409 marshal monks
17751 Arthur Sheldon
44224 fred,walter gray
19791 james bennett
866 Arthur,henry hunkin

at the time,they knew five had been killed and two missing,theres no way of knowing who the five bodies belonged to

killed 16th sept

4308 Sidney harris 4 Dryden st longsight.age 26
24907 sam ashworth your grandfather
46575 ben,arthur bean,8 robin hood st,cheetham hill.age 26
3894 George carter 1 tonge st ancoats.age 24
44253 Arthur George corlett 27 Carrington st Liverpool,died of wounds.age 32
34481 sergeant reuben,eli benson Jacobs 132 harewood st,bradford,yorkshire.age 32

your grandfather and sergeant Jacobs have no known grave

mack
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 08:48:54 PM by mack »

Offline charlie

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2019, 08:47:41 PM »
Soldiers effects (the most reliable source) also records his death as being on the 16th.
Charlie

Offline mack

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2019, 08:53:09 PM »
don't pay too much heed to the roll of honour,its rife with mistakes

mack

Offline mack

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2019, 09:05:41 PM »
on 9-10-1917 a memorial notice was placed in the manchester evening news by sams brother Charlie and his wife Minnie of 35 Boscombe st,rusholme about his death on 17th sept in france

mack
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 04:44:35 AM by mack »

Offline Richarda

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2019, 11:28:30 AM »
Dear Mack,
Thanks for the further useful info re newspaper etc.
 Is there a Grave Registration report for the Sunken Road Cemetery at Famboux?
I do have grave numbers for the known soldiers killed on the 16th Sept but not for any of the unknown graves. The CWGC at Passendaele in 2017 did suggest A26/E15 as  location for my grandfather.

Regards
Richarda
25th October 2019

Offline mack

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Re: Burial Exhumation Reports
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2019, 01:50:44 PM »
I don't know what the grave numbers are for sunken road,you would need to contact the CWGC

mack