2nd Lt. Taylor : 2nd Manchesters

[PhilipG]

Mack,
As mentioned above it is quite a mystery.   The Irish Guards was raised in 1900 and during WW1 four VC's were conferred upon it, including that won by Marshall.   The whole affair involved King George V.     This resulted in His Majesty's Private Secretary writing to the Adjutant General, asking that the Colonel of the Regiment (Lancs. Fus.) be informed "how impressed His Majesty was when he heard that during the Great War 17 Victoria Crosses were conferred upon the Regiment".

I can only assume that the Brigade of Guards persuaded the "War Office" to agree to the action taken, a similar action in the case of Captain Wain, if taken by the Manchesters, being unsuccessful.

PhilipG.

[Tim Bell]

Some interesting thoughts from Mack & Phillip.
In the context of significant changes in Ireland at the time I wonder of political expediency was part of the motive to allocate the VC to an Irish Regiment.
Lt Col Marshall had been brought up in Manchester, but it would certainly have suited the Unionist cause to see his Award recognised as Irish.

[mack]

in the case of captain wain,there wasn't a battalion they could award his VC to other than the tank corps because it no longer existed,the irish guards/Manchester problem was between two existing regiments

mack

[PhilipG]

Mack,
Thank you and I note what you say,of course.  (However, whilst the battalion was disbanded, we must remember that the Manchester Regiment still existed).   Looking at the CWGC site for Captain Wain, I think the detail shown thereon gives a clear picture of his being commissioned in the Manchester Regiment, but attached to the Tank Corps when he won the VC.   PhilipG.

[PhilipG]

I understand that the Manchester Regiment have fourteen members who were awarded the Victoria Cross, including eleven in WW1.   Would it be possible, please, to ascertain if Captain Wain's name is included in that WW1 list?      PhilipG.

[mack]

his medals and those of the other three tank corps VC winners were displayed at the tank museum in july last year,hes not listed in the Manchester VCs list,his family still own all his medals

mack

[mack]

when captain wains grave in fifteen ravine cemetery was exhumed,it was found to be empty,when his commanding officer wrote to his family,he told them that he was buried next to his tank along with his No2 Lt Charles William Duncan,its obvious that the grave was just a memorial,but who made it,all his crew were killed except one man who was badly wounded,if this man survived he couldn't possibly have dug the grave,he would have been evacuated through the chain of wounded casualties long since

capt wain was granted a commission in the 17th Manchesters on 16th july 1915,he was in A.coy during the attack at Montauban on 1st july 1916,and was seriously wounded leading his men

mack

[PhilipG]

Mack,

Re Reply 20 thank you.  That indicates that the Manchester Regiment did not follow the practice undertaken by the "War Office" re the Lancashire Fusiliers as advised in Reply 11.   Thanks again.  PhilipG.

[Timberman]

Just going back to the original question about Harry Vivian Taylor.

He went to France as Private 5746 with the 20 Royal Fusiliers
in 1915 no other date on his MIC. He was then commissioned
into the Manchester Regiment?
He was with the 2nd Bn when he was awarded the MC in April 1917.
On the first of July 1917 he joined the 17th Bn. He was promoted to
Captain 6th of November 1917. He died on the 22 of March 1918.

Harry Taylor was gazetted for his MC on 26/5/17.  His citation reads
 “For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He gallantly led his
company against several machine guns and succeeded in putting 6 of
them out of action, thereby undoubtably saving his battalion from
many casualties. He set a fine example of courage and initiative.” 
This action took place on 2nd April 1917, at Manchester Hill, near
Francilly-Selency.  The 2nd Battalion War Diary provides further
details.  “…Punctually at zero hour, with the first streak of dawn,
the line advacned to the attack and was immediatley met by heavy
rifles and machine gun fire.
This came principally from the Quarry and therefore A Coy suffered most.
2/Lt H Taylor who was in command of the two platoons of A Coy at once
changed direction half right and attacked the Quarry on the flank which
he captured taking 4 machine guns and in addition 2 more machine guns
in a trench adjoining the quarry…”  He was originally posted missing and
presumably assumed killed on 22/3/18 near St Quentin.  He is buried in
Savy Cemetery.  Aged 24, Harry was the son of Henry and Elizabeth Taylor,
of “Netherly,” Rivington Road, Pendleton. Born 29/1/1894. Harry has originally
enlisted in the 20th (Public Schools) Battalion Royal Fusiliers Number 5746.
He is commemorated on the Memorial Plaque at St James Church Hall, Eccles
Old Road, Hope.  Also Old Salfordians Memorial.


 Timberman

[Tim Bell]

Helpful summary Neil.  I'm disappointed I hadn't spotted the 17th Bttn sooner.

[PhilipG]

I note in a reference by the 7th Manchesters that upon their arrival in the Nieuport sector in 1917, they were pleased to receive a visit from Captain Leonard Taylor who was serving with the 2nd Manchesters in the same sector on attachment to that battalion.             PhilipG.