Author Topic: Battledress & saluting  (Read 976 times)

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,386
Battledress & saluting
« on: August 27, 2019, 04:45:27 PM »
In February 1943 as a naval rating, it was very necessary for saluting purposes to recognise a British Army or Royal Marine officer wearing battledress.  A rule of thumb was that such officers wore a collar and tie, the neck of the battledress blouse being undone.   On demob. leave my impression was that this dress code was extended to Other Ranks.   Was that the case?   PhilipG.

Offline rafboy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,129
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2019, 09:06:53 AM »
I'm not sure when the attached photo of the 63rd PTC shooting team was taken, it was post war in Dunham Park possibly 1946. You can see that there is a WO wearing a tie but none of the other ranks. My father is there as a Cpl back row 3rd from the left as you view. Then 24th May 1947 both my mother and father can be seen at their wedding wearing ties.
Cliff
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 09:08:28 AM by rafboy »
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,386
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2019, 11:30:20 AM »
rafboy,

Cliff, many thanks indeed for your info. and excellent photographs.  Much appreciated.   Memories of my working for King George VI returned.    I tend now to think that up to the end of the war, only officers and the RSM were allowed to have the neck of the battledress blouse undone, the changeover coming when the National Servicemen arrived, say 1947.  Thanks again.    PhilipG.

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,174
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2019, 12:19:55 PM »
Cliff,
Thanks for sharing the photos, its always interesting to see photos of an era other than WW1.

The Sgt and C/Sgt standing at either end of the back row appear to be improperly dressed - no medal ribbons  :)

Charlie


Offline themonsstar

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,368
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2019, 11:01:26 AM »
Cliff
Fantastic photographs of your Mum and Dad with lots of badges everywhere you look.

Roy

Offline Tim Bell

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,482
    • Grandad's Journey
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2019, 02:29:11 PM »
Cliff,

I hadn't spotted that wonderful photo.  They should've been on a poster!

Very impressed with your Dad's collection of medal ribbons.  What are they all?

Cheers

Tim
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/

Offline rafboy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,129
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2019, 02:59:37 PM »
Tim,
 
I have donated his medals to the Regimental museum, they are:

 General Service Medal with clasps “PALESTINE and MALAYA”

1939-45 Star

Pacific Star

Defence Medal

War Medal 1939-45

Long Service and Good Conduct Medal

Cliff

Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline rafboy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,129
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2019, 03:09:57 PM »
SEE MY UPDATE ABOVE
I have added latest information and corrected the statement on mothers medals.

Thanks Roy

Phil was a Pioneer Cpl with the 1st Bn hence the crossed axes above his tapes.

I have not been able to identify positively what the crown my mother is wearing is for, I assume it is connected to the job she was doing in London.
I am surprised she has no medal ribbons up, I have her Defence Medal, no idea why she was not awarded the War Medal.

This is my mothers Service Record:

W/50694 Pte Stella Marguerite CALDWELL - Auxiliary Territorial Service
Enlisted into Auxiliary Territorial Service at Lancaster and posted   
to Western Command Manchester   14. 2.41
Posted to A Company Group 42   25. 3.41
Posted to 10/11th Cheshire Platoon 4th Anti-Aircraft Group, Preston   26. 3.41
Posted to lst East Lancashire Regiment 4th A Group   24. 5.41
Passed Trade Test as a Clerk Class II   28. 2.42
Mustered as a Clerk Class I at Manchester   7. 3.42
Appointed Acting Lance Corporal   31. 3.42
Posted to 44 Anti-Aircraft Brigade   24.10.42
Discharged for Family Reasons (No other details recorded)   25.12.42
Enrolled into Auxiliary Territorial Service at Manchester   25. 2.47
Posted to A Company London District   10. 3.47
Classified as a Clerk Group C   30. 4.47
Change of name by marriage to Phillips, married at the Register Office   
City of Westminster   24. 5.47
Posted to Company North West District   21. 8.47
Posted to No 1 London District   1. 9.47
Discharged on Compassionate Grounds (No other details received)   6. 2.48
Service with the Colours: 14.2.41 - 25.12.42 and 25.2.47 - 6.2.48   
Medals issued etc: For this information if required apply to: Army Medal Office, Worcester Road, Droitwich Worcestershire WR9 8AU.
Address on Enrolment in 1941 and 1947: 391, Stockport Road, Timperley Altrincham.
Cliff
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 03:36:15 PM by rafboy »
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline charlie

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,174
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2019, 05:02:51 PM »
Cliff,
Very strange that your mother wasn‘t awarded the War Medal or did it get lost? As far I am aware service with the ATS made the person eligible for the award.

Charlie

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,386
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2019, 05:25:10 PM »
rafboy,

Cliff, looking at the photographs once more, I see that most in the group are wearing "utility" type battledress i.e. the pocket buttons are not covered by "flaps".   I think it was a design to save cloth.   It must have caused the loss of many blouse buttons when crawling.       In the wedding photograph, your father is wearing the "non-utility" type battledress uniform.   In that connection, what was the purpose of the button, just above shoe level on his right leg?    Lastly, I recall, probably in 1946/7 a neighbour's son on leave wearing a Canadian Army battle dress, a uniform of some smartness and cut, presumably transferred to British forces as the Canadians had returned home.   The trouble was that it was a slightly different shade of khaki from the British Army clothing.   Such was the state of the country at that time that it would not seem to matter.   PhilipG.

Offline rafboy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,129
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2019, 11:16:43 PM »
Charlie

I don't know how many times I have looked at this photo and never noticed the buttons .
I have enlarged the photo and cropped out the bottom of the trouser leg, you can just make out that there are "flaps" coming from the back of the leg which must be to enable the bottom of the trouser leg to be tightened (Photo attached). I suspect this was done before putting Gaiters on, I can remember my father wearing Gaiters, he had chains with lead weights on that kept the trouser down over the top of the Gaiter.

This does ramble on a bit and I think he has the sizes the wrong way round but it shows the type of Gaiter my father had, his were blancoed:
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PwOMQRNBm8

Cliff
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline rafboy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,129
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2019, 03:43:51 PM »
Roy and Charlie,

My mother had the War Medal not the Defence Medal as she had not served the required time to qualify for it which is 1080 days, Mother had only served 680 days during the required period.

She is not wearing the War Medal Ribbon because it had not been issued to her, I claimed it.
I have a letter from the MOD Army Medals Office confirming her entitlement, I just had to find where I had filed it.

Cliff 
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC

Offline PhilipG

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,386
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2019, 09:07:06 AM »
As a naval rating in WW2, I was issued with gaiters (blancoed green) into which the appropriate part of my bell-bottomed trousers had to be tucked.   The gaiters had to be returned to ship's stores when our draft left for foreign parts.   A friend, a post-war naval national serviceman, tells me that he was issued with army type anklets - a cost saving exercise no doubt.     PhilipG.

Offline mack

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,671
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2019, 09:06:38 PM »
I remember something that was said by the late great spike milligan about the british uniform when he enlisted,he said I looked like a bag of shit,it didn't fit me anywhere,but those were the times ;D ;D

mack

Offline rafboy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,129
Re: Battledress & saluting
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2019, 02:12:24 PM »
On my parents wedding photo can be seen two badges on my mothers bag, the Regiment hat badge and another close to my mothers hands. I don't have a hat badge unfortunately but do have the other badge which was in my mothers possessions when she passed away.
The attached photos are of the one I have. The inscription on it says "Manchester Regt Old Comrades Association"
See the attached photos.
Cliff   
Cliff P Son of 3525679 Sgt Arthur Phillips 1st Bn Manchester Regiment and RAPC