Author Topic: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.  (Read 604 times)

Offline PhilipG

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This NCO whose NOK resided in Oldham, was killed in action at Joncourt on the 1st October 1918 when the 2nd Manchesters stormed the Beaurevoir - Fonsomme Line.     This was an action in which Wilfred Owen also took part, gaining the award of a Military Cross.    I take it that the Military Medal award to Sgt. Savage would also be in connection with the Joncourt attack.   PhilipG.

Offline mack

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2019, 03:24:10 PM »
hiya Philip
I think you need better help than I can be with this,sgt savages MM was gazetted on 24-1-19,i have a small list of 9 others from the 2nd battalion whos MMs were gazetted on this date,you need someone who is good with the London gazette to determine what time frame these awards were from.
sgt savages death on 1st October kind of rules out a MM for this action because its not awarded posthumously,but WW1 throws up all kinds of surprises

Charlie may be able to help you with sgt savage,he was mentioned twice in the Oldham chronicle on 21-9-18 and 1-2-19,charlie knows the contact details for the chronicle,hopefully it might say where he won his MM


sgt 7683 harry martin 2nd battalion,was also gazetted a MM on the same date,he was killed on 13-9-18

could these MMs be for actions before October


when sgt savage was killed,he and his family were living at 20 fisher st,oldham

mack

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2019, 03:29:51 PM »
Mack,

Many thanks. PhilipG

Offline mack

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2019, 03:48:33 PM »
hiya Philip
don't know if this is of use to you.

L/Cpl later act/sgt 9025 William glynn was also gazetted a MM on this date,this was his second award,the first was gazetted on 26th may 1917,on 4th November 1918 on the ors canal,he earned a DCM while trying to capture the german army on his own :)

mack

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2019, 07:13:58 PM »
Mack,

Thanks.   From your research it seems possible that the award of the MM was for gallantry at Francilly-Selency around the 2nd April 1917 when Owen lay out in freezing conditions with a much depleted battalion.  Perhaps an involvement in the capture of the German guns.   Thanks again. PhilipG.

Offline mack

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2019, 07:38:22 PM »
hiya Philip
another of the men in the list was sgt 1483 Edward louis lavelle,its believed that his MM was for a action in august or early sept 1918,sgt 7683 harry martin who I have already mentioned[above]died of wounds on 13th September.

mack

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2019, 08:09:35 PM »
Mack,

Thank you.   PhilipG.

Offline charlie

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2019, 09:18:33 PM »
I‘ll see what I can do with the the Oldham Chron.

Sgt Savage‘s award of the MM is recorded in the War Diary on 4th Sept 1918. The way the soldiers are mentioned in order of seniority - CSM down to Pte and then Sgts again - suggests to me that Sgt Savage could have been recommended at a different time to Sgt Lavelle.

Charlie

Offline mack

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2019, 02:36:53 AM »
this means these awards are most likely for acts in august,the war diary has solved it for Philip,nice work Charlie

mack

Offline mack

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2019, 05:05:45 AM »
the MMs gazetted on 14th may 1919 appear to be for the fighting on the st quentin canal in September[MM sgt 27923 Edward coleman st quentin]

ime fairly sure the MMs gazetted on 23rd july 1919 are for the actions in October 1918,there was quite a few awarded to 2nd battalion
28740 walter higham MM gazetted 23rd july,joined the 2nd battalion on 3rd sept 1918,granted 14 days leave on 8th oct till 22nd oct

mack
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 12:39:32 PM by mack »

Offline Bob.NB

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2019, 11:10:13 AM »
Howard Williamson's Great War Medal Collectors Companion states that the MMs gazetted inThe London Gazette of 24 January 1919  were for the Battle of Amiens, 8 August 1918 to 3 September 1918 plus other awards for Italy and Salonika.
Bob B 

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2019, 10:25:25 AM »
Mack, Charlie, & Bob B,

 Thank you for your help in this matter.  I suppose it is not always possible to learn of the act of bravery in winning an MM and where it took place, but many thanks for your efforts.    PhilipG.

Offline mack

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2019, 10:45:31 AM »
sgt savage was mentioned in the battalions raid operations order No1 for the raid on 1st july 1918

mack

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2019, 12:04:19 PM »
Thank you Mack.   Sergeant Savage comes over as a brave soldier.   He is buried, of course, in Joncourt British Cemetery.   It so happens, that in the past I have needed to visit this cemetery - re 203357 Pte. T. Jones of the 2nd Manchesters, comes to mind.  The cemetery is mostly given over to casualties suffered by the Lancashire Fusiliers and the 2nd Manchesters, so my eye was immediately drawn to one particular grave, namely that of Pte. W.V. Thompson of the 20th Hussars who was kia on the 30th September 1918.

Following the rapid advance of British troops at the time, it had become of increasing concern to the General Staff as to the locations of the various attacking infantry battalions.  Thus, in September 1918 it was decided to use cavalry units of various numbers (e.g. officers' patrols and above) to report accordingly.

I suggest that Pte. Thompson of the Hussars was killed looking for the progress of the Lancashire Fusiliers and 2nd Manchesters, who at that time, were approaching the Joncourt area.   PhilipG.

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 376529 Sgt. John Percival Savage MM : 2nd Bn. Manchester Regt.
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2019, 09:49:35 AM »
I note that Private Thompson gave the names of his parents as being his next of kin.   I looked up their address and I see that a 3 bedroom flat is for sale today in their street at a price of £649,500.     PhilipG.